John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate on climate change and energy security. At the outset I find myself in agreement with one of the previous speakers, Deputy Jim O'Keeffe, who said in his opening remarks that this was one of the most important debates he had contributed to. It is a pity that the Press Gallery is absolutely empty because the issues we are debating today will have profound effects on our lives and those of our children in years to come. A major change is taking place and while it might not be that radical in terms of tomorrow or next week, we are looking at something very significant and fundamental, and it is probably not receiving the attention, mediawise, it should.

I disagree with Deputy Coveney, who would have preferred that a motion was tabled. The problem with debating a motion is that he and I would speak along party lines, either for or against. I prefer Deputy White's position where she said this debate should be an exchange of views where we can tease out the issues, rather than adopting hard and fast positions for or against a motion. That is the way in which we should view today's debate. At the outset, I remind the House that ten years ago we might have been debating somewhat differently. People would be asking whether there was such a phenomenon as global warming and if climate change was occurring. That debate is over and everybody recognises it is a real issue. In looking at the age profile of Members of this Chamber, while not being rude to any of my colleagues, in our time we can physically see the changes. Some people spoke about the dramatic events we have seen.

When I started to drive, for instance, on going out at night I put a newspaper on the windscreen of the car because it was likely to be frozen. I cannot tell when the windscreen of my car was last frozen, because it does not happen. When did we last see snow in Ireland, as we would have on a regular basis when I was growing up? I have plants flowering in my garden at times of the year I have never seen before and I ask my wife whether she has planted something new. Things are different, global warming and climate change is occurring and I believe we all recognise it.

I believe also that companies involved in the exploration and production of oil and gas are probably too powerful and have a vested interest in this whole area. If we were to switch off the supply of oil and gas in the morning, as if it did not exist, those very significant and powerful companies would redirect their efforts massively into alternative sources. However, the incentive is not there for them at the moment. They have spent their money on oil exploration and they want a return. We need to be mindful of that.

When we talk of alternative sources, such as wind and so forth, research and development to make them truly productive and efficient needs substantial further investment. For this country there are options, such as wind, wave and tidal power, solar and geothermal energy and so forth. We have wind turbines, solar panels and a certain amount of geothermal energy production, but we are only scratching the surface. It is a new feature for us, not just something on which the Government must lead. It is something people must buy into and take a degree of personal responsibility for. Whether it is new house that is being built and insulated better than ever before, or whatever, the public at large, as Deputy Coveney indicated, is leading. People now recognise that something dramatic needs to be done. As an island nation, we have not invested significantly in tidal and wave power. What has been done so far may be regarded as small. There could, however, be enormous potential in this area for an island nation. I should like to see further debate, exploration and research and development in that whole area.

I am conscious the Irish economy has grown very significantly in recent years. The challenge facing us is to manage the transition from oil and gas hydrocarbons to alternative sources and at the same time sustain economic activity in this country. It would be easy to make some of the policy changes people propose, but there would be economic consequences. In that regard, this is where the purchase of carbon credits has a part to play, particularly during a transition period.

I want, briefly, to refer to the area of bio-fuels. Much has been said about this area of development and in this country we have embarked upon it. I agree with Deputy Coveney as regards the growth in world population. If we were to allow the growth in bio-fuels to replace oil for our cars, the damage globally would be enormous, because it would have enormous impact on our fuel supplies. We debate in this Chamber and in the western world what is best for us. We all drive our cars and go home to centrally heated houses, and we think it would be easier to get rid of oil and use bio-fuel. That, essentially, is the background to this debate. Taking this to its logical conclusion, we could have most of the arable land producing bio-fuels and it would adversely affect food supply. At times this whole question of economics supporting trade baffles me. I just do not understand it. I cannot understand why land is set aside in the western world, producing nothing. At the same time on other continents tens of millions try to survive on barren soil. There is something fundamentally wrong. I express a serious caution that we should not produce tonne after tonne of bio-fuel and jeopardise the food supply.

Ireland will be fine because we are economically prosperous and have the wealth to buy in food, as well as the wealth to create the bio-fuels. However, this is a global issue and there are other people who will suffer very significantly, It is absolutely beyond me to understand why people who are starving and without economic significance in this world are in many ways being isolated from this debate. I caution that the advancement of bio-fuels must not be pursued in a manner that might jeopardise food supply. That is a separate debate but we need to be conscious of it.

Times are changing and everyone within this Chamber and beyond recognises that we need alternative energy sources. Individuals need to be aware that they must also make the change. One frequently hears many local objections to planning applications for wind farms. I often make the point to the objectors that they are objecting only because they can see a wind turbine but that they frequently do not object to unseen factors, such as carbon dioxide emissions. We need to make tough decisions to allow the development of alternative sources of energy, including geothermal energy, which offers great potential. In my area, Newcastle, County Dublin, there are some surveys in progress which, if successful, will allow whole communities to avail of a non-carbon dioxide emitting energy source. We must make choices in this regard. This debate should be regarded as an exchange of views on climate change rather than a debate on a strict motion.

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