Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)

I thank the Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Pat Carey, for coming before the House to introduce this Bill. As a previous speaker said, it is long overdue. I have asked about its introduction for some years.

This Bill is important because some people in the charity sector were behaving in strange ways, an example of which is the sale of lottery-type cards outside banks and shopping centres. Young people may be forced to sell lines on the street in an effort to get credit card numbers and bank account numbers from people. We had no control over who benefited from these activities or how they behaved. Like the last speaker, I will be glad to learn how many people are paid to engage in charity work and how the area is monitored. However, I am worried that small charities that do important work might be adversely affected by this Bill. The previous speaker mentioned cake sales, urgent fundraisers, people running marathons and so on, and these activities generate a lot of money for genuine good causes. We must be careful not to inconvenience these people as, to my knowledge, there is no cost factor in such activities and there is little, if any, danger of money falling into the wrong hands in such circumstances. People are proud when they run marathons or the like and raise money for charity and they normally publicise the fact, perhaps in the local media, to indicate how much money was raised.

We must monitor cowboy operators and ensure strong legislation brings them to justice and deals with them appropriately. I was interested in Deputy Aylward's suggestion that the law in this regard is not strong enough. For this to come from a Government backbencher raises interesting and important questions that should not be ignored.

Speaking as one who has been deeply involved in charities through the years I thank all who have worked for them because their efforts are essential. These people work in a voluntary capacity collecting money for others, not for themselves. I am thankful for the community spirit that exists in this country. The Irish are the most generous people. When there is a crisis outside Ireland the Irish people often lead the way and respond more strongly than governments. However, we must ensure there is no rip-off factor. To that end I welcome the regulations and permit system that will ensure charities are be registered and to provide proper returns at the end of the year.

As I said, the large national and international charities will not have a problem in continuing to carry out their work but I would like to see clear information in the Bill that indicates that smaller organisations will not be forced out by having to pay auditors and so on. Structures in farming today allow small farmers to fill in profile forms that indicate their incomes and taxable liabilities and small charities should be allowed use similar forms rather than pay auditors and so on. The alternative is to force people out of business.

I understand there are 19,000 community and voluntary groups in the country, which is a remarkable number. They play a major role in ensuring the worst off, both at home and abroad, are looked after. I take this opportunity to thank all involved.

The Bill is straightforward but I am concerned about aspects of it. It provides, for the first time in primary legislation, a clear definition of "charitable purpose". It also provides for the establishment of a new regulatory authority. This is another area in respect of which I am concerned about the establishment of new regulatory bodies. Even the Minister of State will agree that obtaining answers from bodies such as the NRA and the HSE is like pulling hen's teeth. I worry about the various authorities that have been established which are not answerable to the House. There must be clear provision within relevant legislation that such bodies must present themselves to a committee of this House on at least an annual or biannual basis. There is no shortage of committees under this Government and there is no reason that it should not be mandatory that a body such as this must be accountable to the House in this way and thus provide answers to all our questions.

The Bill states that annual reports by charities must be submitted to the regulatory authority. I cannot emphasise enough the need for smaller charities to be able to present their reports in as simple a form as possible. The Bill also updates the law on fundraising, particularly in regard to collections by way of direct debits and similar non-cash methods. The level of fraud in this area is significant. One of my best friends in Monaghan was recently defrauded of some €15,000 from his bank account by means of a scam. This is something of which we must be aware. I welcome the provision to establish a charities appeal tribunal.

The Bill sets out the types of organisations that will be included in its provisions and those that are excluded. I have no difficulty with political parties being included in the latter category. However, I am concerned about the status of groups that might be funding political parties or other types of organisations. The Bill provides that a charity may be removed from the register if it is found to support terrorism, terrorist activities or any organisations of which it is unlawful to be a member. This must be set out clearly. As a person who lives near the Border, I have seen the fundraising activities of unlawful organisations on both sides of the political and religious divide. Such activities must be dealt with firmly, whether through the Criminal Assets Bureau or this legislation. Everybody, whether in politics or otherwise, must be confident that there is a level playing field.

There is a strong tradition of volunteerism in Ireland. The amount of money collected for charities working abroad, in particular, is significant. We must ensure this Bill does not lead to any type of volunteerism fatigue. People could get extremely annoyed and retreat from voluntary work if regulation leads to an excess of red tape. People are busier than they used to be. The costs associated with mortgages and other living expenses mean that in many families, both parents must work. Many people living in counties Louth, Meath, Cavan, Monaghan and other areas close to Dublin are obliged to commute significant distances to their jobs. All this means that people do not have much time to devote to voluntary activities. We must support those who give of their time.

GOAL, Christian Aid, Trócaire, Bóthar and other overseas aid organisations do important work. The Government provides significant overseas aid but has failed to meet the commitment given by the Taoiseach to the EU some years ago. We must continue to encourage these organisations. My previous boss, the late T. J. Maher, was active in Bóthar. He encouraged not only the collection of moneys to send overseas but also all types of livestock, which allowed the recipients to improve their lives in the long term rather than merely receive the short-term relief of money. It is the old notion of give the man a fishing rod and allow him to catch fish.

Many voluntary organisations continue to do important work, despite the arrival of the Celtic tiger. We must not be overzealous in putting structures in place that might block their activities. The Minister of State, Deputy Carey, was welcome at the drugs awareness meeting in Bailieborough some time ago. I am sure he noticed that the greatest cheer of the day was for the announcement that a voluntary organisation in Bailieborough had donated €7,000 to allow for the continuance of drug awareness efforts. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul is more active than ever, particularly in the lead-up to Christmas. It does significant work in helping the poor and not so poor. Many middle income people are now in difficulty because of high mortgage payments and other costs and borrowings. I spoke to volunteers in the Society of St. Vincent de Paul about their work and how vital it is.

Cancer care services have been much discussed in this House in recent weeks. If it were not for the work of voluntary organisations and their extensive fundraising activities in local areas throughout the year, the families of people with cancer would be in a far worse situation. I recently learned of the existence of a Bailieborough cancer fund, which provides patients with transport and other necessary services.

It used to be the case that people in my area who suffered from alcoholism could be treated in St. Davnets Hospital. However, the brilliant HSE considers that type of service is no longer necessary. Sr. Concilio, who has premises in Galway and Newry and has recently established one in Monaghan, is doing the work the HSE should be doing to help people with alcohol and drugs problems. She depends on massive fundraising through George Wallace and others. Friends of Monaghan Hospital, Friends of Cavan Hospital and many others do vital work in my area.

At national level, there is Aware, the Irish Wheelchair Association, the Alzheimer Association of Ireland, MS Ireland and many more. I am aware of a recent case where a person seeking home help had to turn to the Alzheimer Association of Ireland because no help was available through the HSE's so-called "care packages" about which the Minister for Health and Children spoke so much.

Disability organisations do much good work. I might not have become a Member of this House were it not for my involvement in raising €56,000 in nine weeks to send a child with cerebral palsy to receive treatment abroad. That is an example of a charity. I would not like to see so much red tape that a spontaneous reaction to an urgent need could be stopped.

There may be a similar case where a family may be burned out of their home, and one cannot help but think about the tragedy in Omagh. A family might survive a fire but not have insurance, so locals would need to make an urgent whip around. That is clearly the case in rural areas but it may not be the same in cities. We do not want such activities blocked.

If it was not for Parents and Friends of Mentally Handicapped in the north Monaghan area, I do not know where families dealing with disabled people would house their young people. Before the last election I went to Kingscourt and I did not realise there was so little knowledge of what was available through voluntary housing. Some of the young people were being housed in north Monaghan because of the voluntary activities in that area. If that did not happen, they would be in trouble.

If there was not a massive voluntary effort through the GAA and many other organisations, where would our young people be today? Sports grants are very important and we received over €8 million in the past five years in Monaghan, more than €7 million in Cavan and €17 million in Donegal. Only last week, my local group in Killeevan had a gala night, with auctions etc., to raise funds. It is important to remember when this legislation is being finalised that it is very complex and all these matters have to be dealt with as best we can.

An issue some voluntary organisations feel very sore about is VAT refunds, and perhaps this will be looked at as we come near the budget. A body may get a 70% grant towards a €100,000 project, but VAT of 20% will be added on to the project, leaving the total cost as €120,000. In reality, the €20,000 goes back to the Government, meaning the 70% grant works out at a real cost to the Government of €50,000. I hope the Government will look at giving VAT refunds to charity organisations because it is very difficult for them to raise funds from the public and then have to deal with a dramatic VAT cost.

I thank the likes of the Lions Club and Rotary Club, and all the other organisations which do tremendous charity work to keep our systems going. Other speakers have gone into the technicalities of the Bill more than I, and there will be much to be done on the next Stages. I know from working with the Minister of State in the past that he is realistic and will not be totally in the hands of his civil servants. The necessary changes to the Bill should be made.

The Bill has been long-awaited. I totally support the idea of regulation but I cannot emphasise any more than I have done that such regulation has to be reasonable. The smaller groups must be treated with the necessary understanding. I welcome and support the Bill, and I hope it will emerge better from this process.

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