Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

There are three questions. With regard to the first, I will raise the issue of CIE with the Minister for Transport. I know discussions have been ongoing and the unions, management and the Department have made progress in liberalising the regime with regard to the relevant Act and having a more open way of giving licences for new routes and areas. They have not fully liberalised the market because it would create direct competition. I will never say they cannot make more progress as that could be done. The former Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, moved the negotiations a long way in trying to progress the issue. I will raise with the Minister the matter of the delays as there is no reason for a three-year delay.

I made a number of points outside the House on the issue of pay. The reality is that when anybody sees a very large increase that covers a long period, it creates difficulties, and I accept that point. The review body covered a period from 2000 but it should have been covered the period from 2000 to 2004. That was not done up to 2004 but from 2000 to the current period. It benchmarked this rise against what it believed were comparable grades in the private sector, which is what the review body does.

The impression constantly given is that the Government dreamed up these increases and implemented them itself. No matter how many times it is mentioned, that is the argument that is made. The review body has been there since 1969 and it periodically, originally on a four-year basis, carries out an assessment. It is an independent assessment, carried out by independent people, and is based on the principles of comparability that are an established feature of public pay determination. That is accepted by the social partners and most other people.

The assessment reflects trends in the private sector at senior levels. For example, it does not just take into account politicians in New Zealand or Australia but the trends across private sector grades. The reality is the private sector grades have moved up substantially over the past seven years. I listened to the views of ICTU and others on this issue when the Government was considering this proposal. It decided that we should not take the increase immediately but rather over a two-year period, which is what has happened a number of times. They have been phased in.

Deputy Kenny stated he was a member of a Government that pressed back these recommendations. I too have been a member of Governments that have done that but they have always taken the increase anyway. They either take a sliding scale or refer them but they have always been taken. There are a number of examples where there have been sliding scales but none of the proposals since 1969 has been rejected.

With regard to the comparisons with French President Sarkozy and others, the Deputy and I know all the arrangements these people have. The position is similar with much of their tax arrangements as they do not operate a system of transparency. They have all kinds of allowances and many ways of implementing them. I would like somebody to put all their arrangements up front. Not only do most of these people have permanent and weekend residences but they also have holiday residences. They have different rules where they are the beneficiaries of prolonged holidays, yachts and homes. We do not and should not have those regulations.

Most of the people mentioned by the Deputy would not pay for a cup of tea from one end of the year to the other because they have catering staff in their homes and can use jets for social as well as other occasions. They are not comparable conditions so we should not use them.

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