Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

We have these independent curriculum committees and so on and one of the tyrannies of the system is that we put so much out there to other people to decide. It can sometimes even be difficult for Ministers to bring about change. It is a very useful debate. I said many times that there is another problem about which we must be honest. Many Irish teachers and teachers in primary school do not have enough knowledge of the language to teach it. I do not blame them. Every time one makes a statement such as that one is accused of blaming them. I state it as a fact. If I went into a school and had a conversation in Irish with many teachers they would not be competent to speak the language.

What is the problem? Would it not be better to show cartoons and "Cúla Búla" in the classroom, with the teacher sitting at the top of the class to ensure the kids do not go wild? There is no better way for a child to learn a language than by watching television. Children learn advertisements because they see them again and again in Irish and English. We should be radical and practices that date to the 1920s should be discarded. I have tried to reform.

I am delighted that Deputy Ring has returned to the Chamber. He will stand with me on the following point. When I was appointed as Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, I was very irate about two things. One was that Gaeltacht islands were dealt with through English, the other that the non-Gaeltacht islands were disgracefully treated with regard to provision of physical services. I determined that no matter where one lived on an island in this country, Gaeltacht or Galltacht, one would be entitled to the same services. We would provide the same services to those who live on an Irish-speaking island in Irish and to those who live on an English speaking island in English. The non-Gaeltacht islands would not be discriminated against in terms of services as they had been in the past. If they were in the Dáil, the people of the English speaking islands would state that I have honoured my bond. They were sceptical at the beginning. Those in Clare Island and Inishturk would admit that I have gone out of my way to ensure the discrepancies and neglect of the past has been made up. Those in Inishbofin, in my constituency, have seen major investment because I could see no justification, fair or foul, for not granting equal status in terms of basic services we desire.

When we refer to figures spent on the Irish language, I will be told we spend €100 million because that is the figure for the budget for the Gaeltacht, islands and the Irish language. However, we do not spend that figure on the Irish language in the Gaeltacht because most of the services provided through my Department to people in the Gaeltacht are services to which they are entitled. They are entitled to roads, houses, water and piers, irrespective of the language they speak. The fact that we channel the money through agencies that deal with the people in the language of the community does not mean it is money spent on the Irish language. It is money spent on the community.

I recently analysed the amount spent on the promotion of Irish in the Gaeltacht. The figure is €17 million per year. One can compare that to the amount spent by the Arts Council, some €80 million. I am in favour of the arts and a country that does not spend money on the arts is not a civilised state. The amount we spend on the arts is four times what is spent on the promotion of Irish in the Gaeltacht. That leads us to a point made in an interesting book from 1950. The point was made that Latin and old Greek had not died but had transmogrified into modern Italian, Spanish and other Romance languages. It lives on in new form because all languages change over time. This island and Scotland are the sole repositories in the world of the Gaelic language. If it dies as a spoken vernacular in these islands, and it is under a greater threat in Scotland than here, we will not be able to say that it transmogrified into another language. It will be dead. The riches of a world culture, a world literature, a culture that goes back 2,000 years in written form will be lost to mankind, not just to Irish people. Some 50 universities around the world are teaching Irish as a vernacular language. Is €17 million out of a budget of €52 billion too much to spend on the preservation of the language in the Gaeltacht?

As someone who comes from outside the Gaeltacht, its preservation outside the Gaeltacht is also very important. The Gaeltacht has been a major resource to those outside the Gaeltacht who are interested in the language. A great number of those who love Irish and can speak it gained their knowledge and love of the language on visits to the Gaeltacht. The two issues are inextricably entwined. I hope the day comes that the Gaeltacht is not important because the Irish language is so robust. We must make a fundamental decision on whether we want the language and whether we are willing to pay a modest price. When other elements that are labelled with the Irish language, such as industry and roads, are stripped away the price is quite modest.

The issue of compulsion is a myth. It existed in the past but we must differentiate between the obligation of the State to provide all sorts of services, as highlighted by Mr. Justice Hardiman, which may pose difficulty for the State at times, and compulsion on the citizen. Those of us who work in the State service are often obliged to do things in order to provide services to the citizen. That is compulsion of the State, not the citizen. The State compels the citizen, for example to fill in tax or social welfare forms, to go to great difficulty in the interaction between them.

I do not believe there should be compulsion on the citizen. I do not believe that someone who can speak Irish, play hurling, do Irish dancing or play Irish music is more Irish than someone who cannot. However, Ireland as a totality, with its dance, its music, its games and its language——

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