Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)

I will quote from a speech given in the Seanad by the former Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Frank Fahey. He stated:

it is difficult in practice to draw a clear distinction between land law and conveyancing law. Therefore, it makes sense to deal with these separate but connected areas of law in one set of proposals.

As previous speakers have said, this is a very complex area of law. We are still very much influenced by laws going back to Norman times. Certainly, it is at times very formidable for the ordinary individual who sometimes cannot come to terms with it. This is why it is so important that the law be simplified and made much clearer. This is part of the general objective of this Bill which, hopefully, will be achieved.

I know people are using the Bill to speak about related subjects. Most speakers spoke about the right to roam, about which there is considerable confusion, and what is happening at the moment is not helping matters. I know the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs set up a forum. Despite recent comments that progress was made, I do not believe this is so. As someone who likes walking along mountains in particular and the seashore, I know that on most occasions when one goes walking, one sees the obstacles. National pronouncements are not reflected on the ground.

I understand fully why people would be very wary of allowing people on to their property. On the other hand, there are people who will see an advantage in leading people on to their property. The mention of money got people thinking about closing traditional walkways because they may get some compensation for it. Whatever it takes, it should be rectified as soon as possible.

Mention was made of the amount of land that is properly registered in this country. I suggest introducing a national programme involving the proper registration of all land in this country because older people possess land who are not just concerned about the registration of title. It leads to major confusion among families or where land is being passed on. There is also the question of land such as commonage that seems impossible to register and divide even among communities which are prepared to co-operate and divide up commonage for community use. It seems to be impossible to do this because of the complexity of existing law. I hope this Bill will, in some way, address that issue. I am familiar with a number of commonages where no one objects to the division but as those with rights to the land cannot be found, it cannot be subdivided among local communities. That is a major issue which is creating problems and should be addressed.

Ownership of fishing rights in rivers should also be addressed. Efforts were made to address the issue when fishing clubs were set up. Major disputes between local people, angling clubs and those who claim rights to rivers lead to confusion.

The Bill provides for future interests in land. Members come across cases where land is earmarked for a person on reaching a certain age. Cases become very complicated. I hope the rules that led to this situation will be changed in the Bill. Future interests for very young people can be protected by trustees when appointed but this was not the case in the past. Trusts relating to land are becoming more popular. The provision in the Bill governing their establishment to pass on land is very important.

Another development concerns land held in partnership and co-ownership. The European Union is encouraging partnership in farming. I can see cases that will arise where farmers will work in partnership and those who acquire partnership rights will seek partnership arrangements to hold property in common. I hope Part VI of the Bill which seeks to modernise and simplify the law relating to co-ownership of land where groups of individuals own property will bring clarity to the law and avoid the current problems in court. There is a total lack of clarity and it is up to a judge to decide what the law is. The Bill will provide more guarantees and stability for co-owners. Contracts relating to land is an important subject. E-conveyancing makes this very important. In the future contracts will have to be very clear and properly registered.

Ownership of land reaches to the soul of Irish people and the heart of how we deal with matters. Most agitation centre on land. This reform is a significant departure but there is some way to go. The area should be continually reviewed.

See this speech in context