Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

Listening to Deputy Higgins inspired me to contribute to this debate. However, I was surprised by elements of the last contribution. Only Dáil Éireann has the right to declare war, therefore, there was no war over the past 30 years. It is all very well to moralise about other people exporting arms, but are we certain that the IRA did not export expertise in bomb-making and other guerrilla warfare-terrorist tactics and techniques? Many questions are unanswered about places such as Colombia where three members of, let us call it, the republican movement — although I do not believe there was very much republican about these activities — were found in Colombia in FARC-held territory where the human rights abuses are absolutely appalling. During the summer, 11 locally elected politicians were taken out and shot by FARC and other politicians have been held hostage for a period, as in the case of Ingrid Betancourt. I wish spokespersons for Sinn Féin would not moralise from a height without adopting a self-critical attitude to some of the activities they have defended and stood over in the past.

I welcome the Minister's comprehensive speech on the Bill which sets the legislation in context. It is a matter about which public opinion is concerned. As a country with a strong neutral tradition, we do not wish to be in the arms export business beyond what is required for police-style activities, whether carried out by our army or police. Nor do we want firms, be they of multinational or domestic origin, to be involved in the manufacture of weapons or in any aspect of the arms trade. At the same time we must be realistic. Many components have a multiplicity of uses and I accept and support the Minister's statement that a degree of pragmatism must be employed in this regard. Obviously, we would not support or finance any activity dedicated to arms production.

We have some control over what happens in our jurisdiction. However, we have relatively little influence in this sphere over what happens in Europe. There is a massive contradiction between the arms sales needed by important arms industries in several member states and the foreign policy objectives of the European Union. There is little doubt, judging from the past, that arms produced in Europe are used in conflicts where there are high casualties and by thoroughly unpleasant regimes. I do not detect any serious intent by some of our partners with important arms industries to do much about the issue. Economic interest trumps all others.

A few years ago, a British Foreign Secretary came into office announcing an ethical foreign policy, but that did not last long and became more of a joke than reality. It is a pity that even states that come across in the European context as genuinely peace loving nonetheless get into situations where they export arms to countries and situations where, speaking from an ethical viewpoint, we should not be involved.

The prospect of persuading other countries to our point of view on this is minimal. Any change depends on public opinion in the countries concerned. Often public opinion is relatively passive and does not take much interest, despite the best efforts of NGOs like Amnesty International and others. All we can do is try to keep our own house in order as well as we can, inevitably employing a degree of pragmatism which will dismay the purists. However, beyond a certain point it is neither sensible nor possible for us to go.

See this speech in context