John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on tackling crime. Unlike some of the previous speakers I have come here without a prepared script. Of all the issues on which I have spoken in this House I feel best equipped to speak on this one, because of my constituents and family involvement. Every Monday when I go into my constituency office and play back the answer phone to hear the weekend's messages, the first to greet me concerns anti-social behaviour and public disorder. While these would have been referred to the Garda people still feel the need to refer them to their local representative. I do not know if they expect me to do something different because some of my friends and family members are involved in the Garda in my area.

In this House we took some steps to deal with the problem when we introduced the Criminal Justice Bill providing for anti-social behaviour orders, ASBOs. Last week I tabled two parliamentary questions on these in respect of the Dublin area. I wanted to know how the ASBO system was working after seven or eight months of operation in Dublin and specifically in my area. In his opening address today the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform responded to these queries saying:

On the subject of ASBOs, I want to respond to some inaccurate conclusions which have been drawn from the fact no ASBOs have yet been applied for by gardaí. The regime, which was introduced just last spring, involves a series of procedures including behaviour warnings and, in the case of children, good behaviour contracts. In setting up the regime, the intention was that these warnings or good behaviour contracts would themselves address the problem behaviour. It is only if they fail that an ASBO will be applied. In any case, it inevitably takes time to reach the stage where an ASBO itself might be sought. Some hundreds of warning notices have already been issued.

While I do not disagree with the Minister's point the volume of complaints we public representatives receive about public order offences and anti-social behaviour makes it a matter of concern that seven or eight months after the enactment of the legislation approximately 145 good behaviour warnings have been issued. In my area, Clondalkin and Lucan, there is a discrepancy in how these are being enforced. There are 31 in Clondalkin but only two or three in Lucan. When we debated this issue in the House there was serious concern about ASBOs infringing civil liberties and being slapped indiscriminately on individuals. That is far from being the case. Will the Minister meet the Garda Commissioner to discuss the issue and ask whether there is a practical impediment to the implementation of the legislation as we enacted it? I appreciate that an ASBO comes at the end of the line but it seems that each area deals differently with the warning letters. ASBOs took up much time here but maybe the Garda are not giving them as much attention as we had hoped they would. Before the system is deemed obsolete we need to review it to ensure the legislation is being enforced. The figures I received last week are a matter for concern.

I see victims of drug abuse every day in parts of my constituency. Some are still dealing and abusing drugs, others are on methadone, wandering aimlessly around the constituency. They make many of those I represent nervous. I have a degree of compassion for those whose lives are ruined in many ways through drug abuse. I have met many of them over the years and got to know them.

Deputy Gregory asked why we do not go after the middle range drug dealers. I am sorry the Deputy has left the House because I would put the problem another way. Drug abuse and gun crime are linked and have escalated because they are part of a lucrative business. I am glad we are having an honest debate without a motion condemning or supporting the Government because we can consider the issue as it is. Where do these people get their money? They are not the poor guys wandering aimlessly around, or the junkies on the street corner. There are affluent, middle class professionals who do not refer to themselves as drug users or abusers but who say they use "recreational" drugs. Each of those people supports the hardship that I see in my constituency and in other parts of the greater Dublin area.

It is a long time since I have heard or read of a professional, an accountant, a solicitor, or a Member of this House who has served time for possession of a drug. That group also has a part to play in tackling this problem. Too often we consider only the drug gangs. We must realise that another part of our society is funding this feuding. While the junkie on the corner and the guy going to the methadone clinic do have a degree of accountability because they have mugged people, stolen handbags, or broken into houses to feed their habits, there is another class of people who fund the problem and make it worse, and we need to pursue them. Too seldom do I see the Garda and the authorities pursue middle class people who use what they might call "recreational" drugs. It is time to examine that in a serious and meaningful way. Many young people, not a small minority, would not dream of going to a nightclub without popping a pill such as ecstasy. They see only the life inside the nightclub, not the chaos, havoc and destruction that drug-dealing has brought to our streets.

More than a decade ago legislation was introduced providing for mandatory sentences for those caught in possession of a substantial quantity of drugs. In recent years people have received that mandatory sentence but they are a small minority. Maybe the figure has grown from 10% to 20% of those brought before the courts in a four or five year period. Many of those caught with substantial amounts of drugs do not receive the type of sentences this House envisaged when the legislation was enacted. If we take drug-dealing and drug-taking as less than serious offences we are part of the problem too. The Judiciary has not reflected the legislation as envisaged by Members at that time.

I will make one or two specific points. At the outset, I mentioned that some of my friends, associates and family are involved in the Garda Síochána. It has been brought to my attention repeatedly that in many ways, the legislation and rules——

See this speech in context