Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

That is a simple fact according to the people who deal with the issue. If Deputy Kenny wants to say that the people dealing with the issue know nothing, while he knows everything, that is fine.

The National Treatment Purchase Fund has stated there is no need for anyone to wait more than three months for an operation and that it is unacceptable that they should do so. If people in such a situation contact the National Treatment Purchase Fund, its members will be only too glad to deal with them. As I said yesterday, some hospitals are not co-operating fully with the fund but the HSE is dealing with that issue.

On Deputy Kenny's second point, it is a fact that the HSE exceeded its allocated Vote of €14 billion by €222 million. The health service is Vote is €15 billion and the HSE gets €14 billion of that amount. At the end of August, its Accounting Officer stated that it was €220 million over budget and that it had to take corrective measures to put itself back into line, like any other agency or department. It has designated a number of areas where this has to take effect. I am not here to manage every one of those. The HSE knows its allocation. In fairness to Deputy Kenny, I do not believe he is saying the HSE should ignore the budget it agreed to last January, that it should not manage within that. That is what it must do. It has a very large capital programme this year and it got a further increase in staff numbers. It must now pull back on staff numbers at the end of the year.

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