Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)

I thank the Members for their wide-ranging comments and thank Deputy Ó Caoláin for his support. Fundamentally, the Bill is about increasing the number of Ministers of State from 17 to 20.

Deputy Bruton stated it would cost €4 million and I do not know how he arrived at that. The cost of a Minister of State, depending on the number of years' service, is probably between €40,000 and €50,000, and if one takes account of the daily allowance which Ministers of State do not receive, there is probably very little in it. If one includes a full complement of staff, one might come up with a figure of over €1 million, provided one included press advisers and all those other sorts of advisers of which I heard Deputies speak, which in my five years as a Minister of State I personally have not seen.

It was interesting to hear the different comments. Deputy Burton spoke of Ministers of State being stuck in so many different Departments. In many cases that is necessary, where there is no structure. That is in total contrast with the drugs area in which I served, for example, because the structure exists. The Minister chairs the interdepartmental group which is made up of principal officers and assistant secretaries, and the National Drugs Strategy Team which is made up of persons from all the Departments who give two and a half days a week to this specific function. The Minister of State presides over the cross-departmental team. Many of these Ministers of State are looking at new policy areas where there is that joined-up government or cross-departmental process, and the drugs area is a good example of how it is working. The Minister of State in that area, at least in my time, did not need to be involved in the other Departments because the officials are part of the process and the structure exists. That example is being rolled out. While Deputy Burton ridiculed the fact that some Ministers of State might have a foot, a toe or an involvement in three or four Departments, it is to pull together the policy structure in many of those areas.

Fundamentally, the Bill is quite brief. It merely increases the number from 17 to 20. The cost involved is far less than €4 million. It might be somewhat over €1 million per office, if one had all those press and other advisers which certainly not many Ministers of State see. Other Deputies in the A-team might get such assistance but the Ministers of State do not.

I thank Deputies for their comments and seek their support.

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