Martin Mansergh (Tipperary South, Fianna Fail)

I congratulate the Leas-Cheann Comhairle on his appointment to the Chair. I can think of no more suitable a person.

It is a great honour and responsibility to be elected to Dáil Éireann to represent the people of Tipperary South with my party colleague, Deputy Mattie McGrath, and Deputy Tom Hayes of Fine Gael.

The legislation to expand the number of Ministers of State to 20 accompanies the formation of a third Administration under the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, an extraordinary political achievement without parallel since the days of Éamon de Valera. Some allege that the continued dominance of Fianna Fáil is harmful to democracy, but elections were always hard fought and there was not the slightest advance certainty about the outcome of the recent election.

We have heard much about performance criteria, business tests and so on from Deputy Bruton. Ireland is regarded at home and abroad as a high-performing country whether one examines economic performance, progress in terms of increased incomes and development or the success of the peace process. These cannot be measured by a cost benefit analysis of particular Ministers or Ministers of State, nor was such done previously. Those in Gordon Brown's Britain — it is no longer Tony Blair's — are fond of benchmarking everything, but it can create a great deal of extra bureaucracy that costs money.

Nostalgia has been expressed in the press for more austere days when there was only a handful of parliamentary secretaries, but let it be remembered that the last rainbow coalition increased the number of Ministers of State to 17, including an extra super junior who could attend Cabinet meetings. From 1992 to 1997, there was a separate Department under the Tánaiste. Upon entering the rainbow Government, one Minister appointed five special advisers immediately. It is all very well to talk about dipping into the pot, soft options and so on, but will Deputy Bruton explain the qualitative and moral difference between what occurred in 1994 and 1995 and what is being done now?

The increasing responsibilities, the new problems and complexities of decision making and the need for better cross-departmental co-ordination have contributed to the legislation to appoint three extra Ministers of State, which smooths the passage of a novel and exciting coalition arrangement involving the Green Party for the first time.

Deputy Burton expressed criticism about Ministers of State being attached to several Departments. I do not know what her experience is, but my own is that attention to problems that are at the edge of one Department's responsibilities, and perhaps marginally eligible for the attention of another Department, may fall through the cracks. It is necessary to have people who can pull together those with different responsibilities and from different Departments to address problems. I do not see the same problem that Deputy Burton does in somebody being attached to more than one or even several Departments.

For example, our ageing population and the integration of the immigrant population, the new Irish as they are called, are important issues requiring special attention as they are problems that are increasing. As people live longer, the proportion of the population that is ageing is on the increase. There are predictions that we will soon be in a situation where 10% of our population will have been born outside Ireland. We are all aware of the language problems involved in this and the potential threats to social stability in the event of a serious downturn in the economy which, however, I do not foresee.

In many governments throughout the world, Ministers of State, Secretaries of State, Under-Secretaries, or whatever title may be used, are attached to each cabinet member. That we will have 20 at the second level attached to the 15 Cabinet members under the Constitution is neither disproportionate nor unusual. A picture has been painted of four Ministers of State attached to a particular Minister and five attached to another. In many cases, however, each Minister of State may be attached to several Departments. It is my understanding that no single Minister will have four or five full-time Ministers of State.

Those who depict a bloated Government leave out of account that Irish people value the accessibility of their political decision makers and their ability to contact and encounter them personally. The representative dimension of officeholders also includes representation to the media, the demands of which are forever increasing.

In the brief time I have been in this House, I have found that the word "cynical" is undoubtedly the one most overused. It features practically in every other breath in Opposition speeches. I suppose it is us they are accusing of being cynical rather than they being cynics themselves. In focusing on this legislation, we should not succumb to the cynical view that only the holding of office counts. Being an elected parliamentarian, together with exercising the duties of a public representative, is important and valuable in its own right. In many countries and multinational organisations where there is a clearer separation of powers, officeholders cannot remain members of parliament. This is the case in the United States, France and the European Parliament, for example.

I warmly congratulate all who have been appointed to this Government, especially the three new Ministers of State whose offices are created by this Bill. I congratulate my fellow countywoman, Deputy Hoctor, on being granted an important responsibility for older people. I look forward to continuing active cross-border co-operation with her, especially given the overlap of constituency and county council borders from Annacarty to Killenaule. The two Government Deputies in Tipperary South, like party colleagues in a similar situation in six other three-seater constituencies, will have to work hard, without relying on the advantages of ministerial office or an independent arrangement, to ensure the same level of Government assistance is delivered to our constituents. It can be done. Earlier this year, for instance, sports capital grants to County Tipperary in its entirety doubled, notwithstanding the absence of officeholders in either constituency at that time. I offer my support to the entire Government team which will be enhanced and completed by this Bill.

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