Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I will clarify the position for Deputy Allen, who asked whether there is a formal opt-out or a derogation. There is not. When the British inserted a protocol I sought, as I would always do in these issues, legal advice. That advice is that it is unlikely there are circumstances where that protocol would affect Ireland. That is clear, but the position is not as clear whereby the European Court of Justice subsequently examines the charter whose remit has the same legal effect as the treaties and applies to all areas embraced by the European Union and where member states apply European Union law. That is the key issue. If the European Court of Justice subsequently examines the charter, which it inevitably will do, it is not clear whether it would decide that the British protocol applies to countries other than Britain. It is not a question of it applying to us, but to all countries.

The legal advice is that that needs to be examined in detail. I assume it is not just an issue for us, but in the convention, and I will raise it there. Otherwise the position could arise where we would all sign up to the charter, but when it is challenged in a few years time on some issue the European Court of Justice would say that it looks at everything in the round rather than just at the reform treaty. It considers protocols, such as the one allowing for the British opt-out. The question is whether that takes effect. It is a legal point but is an important point.

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