Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)

I thank Deputies for their broad welcome for this legislation. I trespassed outside the scope of the original Bill but I only trespassed in the same parent Act although I understand the facility had been overdrawn on other occasions and the Ceann Comhairle has now a much stricter regime in place as a result so I can plead that I may have fallen foul of it.

Deputies Twomey and McManus raised the question of the availability of senior social workers over weekends and of inter-agency arrangements where families are facing an emergency. Last summer following discussions between the HSE and my office, a national working group was established to review services and to make recommendations on the provision of an out-of-hours child protection service. This group includes representatives from the HSE, the Garda Síochána and Focus Ireland. It is expected to report soon and put forward a model for consistent and comprehensive out-of-hours service for children and families.

I agree with the tenor of what was said by Deputies Twomey and McManus on this subject with one caveat. Deputy Twomey suggested that the Garda Síochána has no role in this area. I worry when people say a body or an agency has no role. What is needed is an effective model of inter-agency co-operation where everyone understands what their roles are and which is accompanied by available services.

Deputy Twomey was anxious that the inspectors should have bona fide qualifications and I reiterate that the inspectors must be qualified under the relevant legislation. He also referred to the fact that family welfare conferences can be somewhat protracted and this has also been our experience.

I thank Deputy McManus and Deputy Twomey for their kind remarks. Deputy McManus again welcomed the independent inquiry which the Government proposes to establish as a result of the tragedy in County Wexford. She reminded us that we must learn from what has happened. She also raised the matter of emergency cover and I agree with her in that connection.

On the question of maternal leave, substantial progress was made in the lifetime of this Government on the extension of maternity leave. I agree with Deputy McManus that we need to consider not just maternity leave but also paternal leave in general and the option of more flexible working arrangements for parents in the context of rearing children. In the course of my work I visit a great number of crèches and I am glad to observe a decrease in demand for places for very young children under the age of 12 months. The extension of maternity benefit provisions has resulted in a reduction in demand for such places and this is a very welcome development. I have been shown the separate rooms designed to host these very young children and the demand for these places has declined in recent months.

I refer to the constitutional amendment in regard to children. The Government put forward its proposals and the view expressed by Labour and Fine Gael was that more time was needed to digest those proposals and engage in a debate on them. Deputy Howlin extended to the proposals a particularly warm welcome.

We will be obliged to address this matter in the next Dáil. In that context, Deputy Gormley referred to the legislation relating to persons working with children and why this is no longer to be found on the list of proposed legislation. If the amendment is passed, the form of that legislation will be much more radical in scope. That is an issue that will have to be teased out in the referendum discussions between the parties.

Deputy Gormley also stated that, where children are concerned, we live in a different era and Deputy Ó Caoláin stated that implementation is crucial in respect of all these matters. The Children Act 2001 will now come into force in its entirety. I am proud of that fact because when he introduced it, the then Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, stated that it would take seven to eight years to commence its provisions. However, I have managed to commence it during the lifetime of this Government.

The various resources have been put in place. A substantial increase in the allocation for the probation service was announced last week. Funding has been committed to the development of children detention schools, which will be the model for the detention of all offenders up to 18 years of age. St. Patrick's Institution has, therefore, received its final notice to quit. Arrangements have been put in place and the resources are in place to finalise the implementation of the Act. It is important that we proceed with the latter.

On school-age child care and the argument as to whether it should be three or five, three is currently the restriction in respect of those who are in preschool. However, now that we are bringing it into after-school care, the restriction will be three plus two. That will be the exemption from inspection under the relevant regulations that will be drawn up. I will arrange for my Department to supply Deputy Ó Caoláin with the information he requires on school-age child care and the statistical evidence we possess in respect of it. The Deputy is anxious to obtain an update on the 2002 position.

Deputy Ó Caoláin also referred to the mechanism under the 1997 Act, which has never been commenced and which envisaged the provision of guardians ad litem in family law cases. There is a facility under family law legislation to obtain a report from a social worker, and this is commonly done.

I have reservations regarding the commencement of the 1997 legislation. The practicality is that when we do commence it, it will represent yet another addition to the heavy burden of costs which couples and those who appear before the matrimonial courts are obliged to pay as part of the resolution of their disputes. That provision would, as Deputy Ó Caoláin pointed out, apply to private law proceedings in which the custody of a child was an issue and would provide that child with a separate voice in that regard. The court must be a separate voice for the child. I am not arguing against the principle in its entirety but we must be extremely careful not to inflate the costs incurred by those who appear before the matrimonial courts. I do not know whether other Deputies have experience of this matter but I am aware, from my constituency work, that high fees are quoted for people who appear to participate in cases where, for example, only custody is an issue. Extraordinary fees running to tens of thousands of euro are being charged. If guardians ad litem are inserted into the equation, the costs will increase.

I am not arguing against the principle of Deputy Ó Caoláin's suggestion, I am merely stating that we must be careful in terms of how we implement it. In that context, there are specific amendments in the Bill to provide for the regulation of guardians ad litem by the children's services advisory board. This is a useful development because at present there is no basic statutory provision stating that one may regulate guardians ad litem, which is unsatisfactory. We have provided for representation from the Courts Service on this board in order that better protocols relating to the use of the guardian ad litem service can be developed. It is a well-established feature of, and must necessarily be present in, all child care cases. What Deputy Ó Caoláin touched upon, however, was its extension to the entire matrimonial area, which would have major implications. We did, as he pointed out, make provision in respect of it in 1997.

I have dealt with most of the issues raised and I thank the House for its attention.

See this speech in context