Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)

It is important this legislation is passed. Legislation often falls behind progress in society. Economic developments change society and we follow up with social legislation. Many people would never have imagined we would see most parents out working and 67,500 children would be in non-parental child care services. This is good legislation that continues the idea of child protection and children's rights, an ethos that we must develop even more if we are to keep up with social change. There was previously a dark side in how society looked after children and there were many scandals in the past.

We should wait for the independent report into this week's events in Wexford because it is not the idea to apportion blame. I am concerned, however, that no senior social worker was available to look at this case over the weekend. We would never contemplate a situation where there would be no GP available at night or on call or where the ambulance service would only be available from Monday to Friday. We cannot, therefore, contemplate an emergency service such as a senior social worker being unavailable to the Garda on weekends.

Mental health services have changed dramatically. I hesitated to comment on the events because I work as a GP and have had many interactions with social workers. There are times when we do not want to take a hard line approach because going in with all guns blazing could cause even more problems. It is often better to see if it is possible to work with the family to resolve issues. We should wait for the facts to emerge to see if anything could have been done in Monageer. I do not want the Garda to respond in a hard line way in future because that could be counterproductive.

It is imperative that the HSE put in place a policy at senior level of ensuring that senior social workers are available throughout the country if they are needed. I, as a general practitioner, cannot make the call as to whether children should be taken from a family. The Garda Síochána does not want a situation in which a garda with no training can decide to take children out of the family home. There would be uproar if that were to happen. It must be somebody who is professionally trained and who can stand over such decisions. I can make decisions on treating a patient at night and stand over such decisions if they are questioned at a later date. Similarly, in the situation we are debating, we need professional people in place who can stand over decisions and be answerable if the wrong call is made. That is the principle that will emerge from the independent report.

Legislation on the detention of people has changed quite dramatically. In the past it was too easy to sign what was called the pink form and have somebody admitted to a psychiatric institution against his or her will. The Mental Health Commission now allows patients to appeal committal orders within a two week period, and a number of committal orders have been overturned by the commission. There is another side to that coin. I have had the experience of having to wait a number of weeks before I could sign one of those forms even though there was serious concern about the patient. As the law stood it was not possible to sign the form in respect of involuntary admittance, although the form was eventually signed because the patient's condition deteriorated. In such situations there must be a balance. It is important, therefore, to have appropriate legislation. Bringing forward legislation is fine, but the Minister must also ensure there are people on the ground to carry out inspections of preschool and school facilities.

I wish to sound a note of caution. The people running these institutions will be informed to expect inspection by the HSE and that if they do not comply they could be fined or brought to court. It should be made clear also that they must ensure that the person carrying out the inspection has bona fide credentials, given that there have been attempts to abduct children from school yards or crèches. We must guard against such attempts by somebody impersonating a HSE inspector or a father who is no longer living with the family and wants to take the children away. One way of doing that would be to put in place a lo-call telephone number that the supervisor of the preschool or school facility can contact if there is any concern about the credentials of the person carrying out the inspection. In addition, anybody carrying out an inspection must inform the preschool or school supervisor what facilities are being inspected. Instead of being threatened with court or the Garda, a preschool or school supervisor who is not happy to allow somebody onto the premises could simply ring a designated number to confirm the person's authority to inspect the facility.

Politicians have no idea how family case conferences work. The Minister of State should give plenty of thought to this in the context of the child protection regime he is putting in place. Currently many case conferences do not fulfil their remit. In most cases the family's general practitioner does not turn up because such case conferences can take a long time or may be cancelled at short notice. Furthermore they are not accessible to the people who are most likely to have close interactions with the person involved. I have attended case conferences at which only administrative personnel from the health services were available to attend. The people on the ground, members of the Garda Síochána, school teachers, doctors, public health nurses are often unable to attend case conferences because of their duties, so that a huge amount of expertise is missed out on.

In setting up case conferences, provision should be made for written submissions from the front-line people if they are unable to attend in person and due weight should be given to their recommendations. These cases can be extremely difficult. Having dealt with many over the past decade, I can tell the House that they are as complex as any court case and that there is no such thing as a black and white outcome. That needs to be taken into account and adequate resources provided to back up the legislation we are putting in place today.

Unlike other Ministers who are handed legislation by their staff as they come to House and often do not know what they are talking about, the Minister of State takes his job very seriously and is genuine in his approach to children's rights.

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