Michael Mulcahy (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on Second Stage of the Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007. I congratulate Deputy Boyle on introducing the Bill because it is important for the Oireachtas to have a genuine debate on the calibre of members on our State boards, which have important functions. We also need to discuss the process by which they are selected. I have always known there are many State boards, but I was staggered to learn in the Minister of State's speech there are between 500 and 600 such boards. If we take nothing else from this debate, I propose we initiate a root and branch review of all these boards. I do not believe 500 or 600 boards are required in a State with a population of 4 million, 5 million or even 6 million. Each of the boards has its own office, Christmas parties, computer systems and glossy brochures. Does Ireland need 500 or 600 such boards? I challenge anyone to support the proposition that it does. The introduction of this Bill is a worthwhile exercise because it facilitates a discussion on the method of appointment of people to State boards.

The Government is right to oppose this Bill because it is based on a deep-seated confusion between the roles of the Executive and the Legislature. The Executive is responsible for governing, whereas the Legislature is responsible for introducing and passing laws and reviewing and monitoring the performance of the Government. Deputy Boyle will agree that the duty of the Government is to govern. Semi-State bodies and boards are executive bodies, by and large, and not legislative bodies. Therefore, it is totally appropriate that the Executive should have the direct power of appointment to such boards. I do not suggest that such appointments should not be subject to a screening process and I welcome this Bill's proposals in that regard. We should set out a set of criteria, including the necessary qualifications, to be followed when people are appointed to boards. Perhaps we should provide for such positions to be advertised. It is better for the members of these boards to be appointed by the Executive than for the Legislature to interfere in this process.

I accept my argument does not apply to appointments made to boards which are closely linked to the Legislature. The Joint Committee on European Affairs sends delegates to COSAC, for example. I am sure Deputies are familiar with that EU organisation, which comprises parliamentarians who are members of European affairs committees. This House also sends representatives to the Council of Europe and the United Nations. There is merit in the proposal to allow the Oireachtas to vet those who want to represent the Legislature on such bodies, and then to vote on the potential delegates. It is correct that there should be a distinction between the Executive and the Legislature.

I was sorry to hear Deputy Paul McGrath making a clear allegation during his contribution. He seemed to imply that many people who served on semi-State boards in the past simply did not pass muster. I do not suggest that each of the thousands of people who have served on hundreds of boards since the foundation of the State was perfect. Nobody is perfect and no large system of this nature is ever perfect. I agree with the Minister of State's comment that Ireland has been extremely well served, by and large, by the men and women who have served on semi-State boards since the foundation of the State. Many of them have given large amounts of their time for very small or no remuneration. We should acknowledge the contributions of people at the top of their careers and the height of their professions who have given their spare time to serve on boards of this nature. I do not believe it would be appropriate for the Oireachtas to denigrate the reputations of those people in any way by casting a pall of smoke over them. The vast majority of those who have been appointed by Ministers to give their time to the State, for little or no remuneration, have done an excellent job. Any objective analysis of their work over the years will prove that has been the case.

I ask the Minister of State to send a memo to the Government in consideration of an excellent proposal that is made in the Bill. I refer to the suggestion that most public positions should be advertised. I do not have an objection to that excellent idea. When Ministers are considering appointments to boards, they may be unaware of the talent that is available among the public. I do not see why we should not advertise the availability of positions on boards. I do not suggest the discretion of Ministers in making appointments should be fettered in any way. Ministers should continue to be able to appoint people who do not respond to advertisements. Deputy Paul McGrath made the compelling point that it would be patently ridiculous to require somebody of the calibre of the chairman of the Red Cross to reply to an advertisement by forwarding his curriculum vitae, when his abilities are clear to all and sundry.

I have a problem with the proposal to establish two public bodies under sections 6 and 8 of the Bill. As a matter of conscience, I must oppose the development of two new layers of bureaucracy. Section 6 proposes the establishment of an appointments to public bodies unit and section 8 proposes the establishment of a Dáil committee on appointments to public bodies. As I feel that less government is better government, by and large, I am not in favour of adding two more layers of administration to the decision-making process. Such a measure would necessitate the recruitment of many more public servants, who would have to spend a great deal of time processing these new responsibilities. I doubt that we would get a better result.

I question the constitutionality of section 19 of the Bill, which proposes that "all special appointments which are currently made by the Government to all international organisations shall be subject to a vote of approval by Dáil Éireann". As I indicated earlier, the Constitution is based on a clear line of demarcation between the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. The Executive's job is to govern and the Legislature's job is to legislate. I will give two pertinent examples of special appointments. I refer firstly to the Government's duty to appoint somebody as Ireland's representative on the European Commission, and secondly to Mr. John Bruton, who——

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