Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I do not really understand the Deputy's argument, but I will give him my answer having listened carefully to him. He asked me on what basis do we judge it. We base it first on international experience where Sweden, Germany, France, Spain, UK, Australia and others operate this system. In the past few years we have successfully brought into our health service, for both public and private, 7,500 nursing home beds, which we otherwise would not have, by having private investment in the service. We would be in a very difficult position if we did not have that today. I base it on the view of already having so many private hospitals in the State that operate very effectively. Many of them have being doing it for many years. I base it on the operation of the National Treatment Purchase Fund, which we only introduced a few years ago and which is catering for 50,000 public patients who are getting the benefit of a private service. All of those provide good enough evidence for me.

This is where I do not understand the Deputy's argument. He claims that consultants tell him this will not work because they do not see it as providing equity. I suppose a consultant receiving the income from beds in a public hospital that are designated and ring-fenced as private would hold that view. I understand the argument from the Deputy's point of view — to protect the consultants in that position. I have nothing against the consultants.

See this speech in context