Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)

I beg the Minister's pardon. I thought there was a problem but I will double-check it.

This shift has been an issue and shows a rejection of self-regulation. I do not complain about this. I complain about the idea that somehow lay people on the Medical Council will make a real difference. The case has not been proved; the evidence has not been brought forward and it is important to have it, given the import of the Bill.

I wish to raise an issue which was not raised by Deputy Twomey but about which I am concerned. The Minister is in love with the private model. Privatisation is the way by which she operates. It has infused the health service in a way we must examine cautiously and carefully. There can easily be conflict of interest, particularly when large amounts of money are made out of the health care system. "For profit" is a new phenomenon recently introduced. We must be careful and consider how we can secure protections against conflicts of interest arising.

I will give the example of a general practitioner who was an adviser to Professor Drumm in the HSE. This man was engaged with a company called Touchstone, a private company developing general practice clinics. He advised Professor Drumm and was a driving force in the promotion of approximately 500 primary care teams and centres. He left that important post and went straight onto the board of directors of Touchstone. In another country this would not be permitted. In the United States, much beloved by the Minister, it would not be permitted.

Concerns are raised about people sniffing around the health service because the Minister opened the door to them to make money from health provision in a way that is new to us. We do not have the protections, safeguards, guidelines or rigorous protocols to ensure people do not use their positions to promote privatisation or private business because lots of loot can accrue as a result of such a change. We must examine this matter in the context of the ethical behaviour of medical professionals and others.

In this country we know that no matter what scandals have occurred the basic relationship between patient and doctor is based generally on trust. We should not let go of this. It is important that we examine all aspects of this trust to secure and protect it.

See this speech in context