Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)

As the Deputy is aware, there is labour relations machinery in the State through which the eight claims in this matter were progressed. The Labour Court recommended that nurses pursue certain matters through the benchmarking process, in particular the issue with regard to the approximately 1,000 nurses in the mental health area, where those reporting to them receive about €3,000 per annum more than the nurses. The Government recently negotiated a national pay agreement with hundreds of thousands of trade unionists, who have accepted the agreement, which gives a 10% pay increase over the next 27 months. Some nurses, including those represented by SIPTU, have accepted this agreement. It is not just an issue with regard to nurses but one of public pay policy.

The Deputy may be aware that, as I stated at the Joint Committee on Health and Children last week, major work practice changes are needed in the health system. In particular, we need staff working more closely together as part of a team at primary care level. We need longer working days from certain health care professionals, particularly those involved in diagnostics, so that patients can get the service they require, on a non-emergency basis, for longer and after 5 p.m. In that regard, I have suggested — I am not the author of the suggestion, which comes from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions — it would be worthwhile to establish a process whereby we could bring various stakeholders in the health system together to find whether we could develop innovative solutions with regard to the work practice issues, such as the kind of model we devised in the 1980s with regard to the economy. That is worthy of consideration. I would like to think the INO and the PNA would consider pursuing, for example the issue of a 35-hour week, through that process.

The health care system has substantial numbers of nurses working in it, 12.2 nurses per 1,000 patients, whereas in France the figure is 7.5 and 8.5 throughout the European Union. With regard to the issue of a 35-hour week, as I have said to the nurses' organisation, if we can, with the same number of nurses, cover in 35 hours what is currently covered in 39, there will not be an issue. However, if a reduction to a 35-hour week were to require the employment of 4,000 more nurses, there would be an issue. What is required is an innovative process in which some of these matters can be explored, for example, different ways of working or a better skills mix. We could develop many innovative processes for better working practices in the health system if we could establish a forum in which these issues could be pursued. I hope a forum can be established in this case. The issues relating to nurses can be explored in that context.

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