Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

There are issues for everybody, including the Government. I do not accept services are poorer. When active citizenship was at its height, we had very few services. Class sizes in schools numbered over 50 in most parts of the country whereas now they are under 20. Parts of the country, mainly in Dublin and other cities, have bottlenecks but there are huge stretches of roads across the country. Traffic jams used to begin at the Phoenix Park when one was on the road to Galway but now one can be a long way clear of the city in an hour. That is not the issue. When active citizenship was at its height, central government put very little money into the community whereas €300 million a year is invested in various community activities now.

I agree with the Deputy that if a person spends an hour on the M50 coming and going, he or she will not want to do too much with the under nines until the weekend, but I expect the task force to come up with reports and recommendations. The important thing is to try to analyse the reasons. The figures are not as good in rural communities also, even though one must acknowledge the many people involved in active citizenship in such communities, but they do not have commuting problems or problems with large class sizes, by and large. The issue is broader than that. More people are involved in active citizenship in the "poorer", hard pressed areas than in areas where there are no difficulties.

People are busier. I was in the airport the other day and staff pointed out to me that the next busiest day of the year after Christmas Eve is next Friday and they were laughing when I did not cop on why. Then I was told it was the mid-term break and there are more flights out of Dublin Airport than normal, which is good. In some ways, they are the poor — I do not want to put a class on them — but I am glad they are doing that because I would not mind doing it myself.

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