John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)

Deputy Quinn will have an opportunity to contribute to the debate. This matter has no place in the Committee of Public Accounts. That committee investigates State spending retrospectively. This involves money that was not spent by the State. It should be taken up by the Committee on Enterprise and Small Business or by the Committee on Finance and the Public Service.

The total amount of money involved is less than €1 million. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle has made the case for this, as has every Member of the Oireachtas from the constituency. To put it at its mildest, a genuine mistake or error was made at the time by the then Tánaiste. The workers decided to enter into the deal for the closure of Comerama in a genuine manner because of what they were told. As a result, they were left short in their payment from the State. The total amount involved is roughly €1 million. In the context of the budget it is small change.

The Finance Bill again offers an opportunity for the Government, in consultation with the Minister for Finance, to ensure the money is paid, either by the Department of Finance or the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. There is almost a moral obligation on the State to honour the commitment that was given, regardless of whether it was given in error. The decision taken later by the workers hinged on what they were told at that meeting. I again appeal to the Minister to ensure this is done, whether it is through an amendment to this Bill or in some other way by another Minister. The workers who are asking to be heard should be allowed to come forward and put their case, either to the committee on finance or to the committee on enterprise.

The role of the Committee of Public Accounts in the context of the Finance Bill and the budget is most important. The legislation dealing with the remit of the Committee of Public Accounts must be changed. The committee must be given far more clout to ensure that wherever an overspend is identified and is debated by the committee, it does not just go into a report for the Minister for Finance. There should be some way of dealing with the issue and preventing the ongoing loss of money to the State with regard to the project.

An enormous amount of money has been spent on projects throughout the country and the Committee of Public Accounts has been examining that spend retrospectively. That is not really productive. Yes, problems are identified and corrections have been made with regard to contracts and how the Secretaries General of the Departments now approach their work in the context of accountability and transparency. However, more must be done. Members of the committee travelled to America some time ago and found many examples of how that could be done. It is not a case of inventing a new process. The processes are there and they only need to be adapted to this country.

We must put a value for money flag on Leinster House and make it clear to all and sundry that nothing short of the delivery of value for money for the taxpayer will be accepted. We must put on notice everyone who is engaged in business with the State that we are serious about our business and anxious to achieve the value for money which is so important in the context of what we spend. That change should be made as soon as possible. As I said earlier, there are plenty of examples available.

The Bill provides for other changes relating to credit unions, the minimum wage and so forth. All of them have a positive input into the development of the economy. It is essential we continue to manage the economy as we have done and that we get better at managing Government spending.

I accept the point made by Deputy Ring. We have a changing economy and there are now billions of euro to spend, where previously it was only hundreds of millions. We must ask if we have the mechanisms and skilled professionals in every Department not just to account for the money but to ensure it is spent wisely and properly. The Opposition blames the Ministers but the fact is that there are highly paid civil servants throughout the Departments and they have a responsibility to ensure the appropriate mechanisms are in place to monitor the spend and ensure we get value for money.

Deputy Ring spoke about answering machines. That is the first line of engagement with the general public and I believe it must be changed. There must be systems in place that not just deliver value for money but also deliver services in an efficient way. They should not only be accountable to the Committee of Public Accounts and this House but also at county or regional level. That is not happening. The way to open it up is to ensure every job opportunity within the service is open to applications from outside. That will require the opening up of the interview processes.

Currently, county managers interview county managers for vacant positions. It is the most ridiculous system I have seen in a long time. It will not attract those who are skilled and professional enough to take on the position of county manager or of director of services or any other position in the HSE. Just because one has come up through the grades does not mean one is a good administrator. If one has come up through the Garda Síochána, it does not mean one will be a good Garda Commissioner and administrator. We need to examine the structures and the qualifications of the people in them. Until recently, the NRA did not have an accountant. Given the amount of money it is spending, surely the first thing it should have done was ensure the accounts department and the valuations office were in place. I agree with Deputy Ring that there is a need to reform the Civil Service to ensure we get the best people in place to spend the billions of euro we currently push through the system.

I commend the Bill and the work the Minister is doing.

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