Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)

In Britain, where I have seen some of the prison accommodation, the figure is €36,000. The Government has not made value for money a great priority and if international comparisons are used in judging the Minister's performance he does not rate highly. The Minister proposes giving future Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the power of privatisation, to exercise if appropriate. The question arises as to whether it will ever be appropriate from the point of view of value for money. In 2002 a report from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated that privatisation of prison services would never save money.

There is so much to say about prisons but so little time in which to say it. We have never had a chance to talk about prisons in the context of penal reform and penal policy in general, but I will touch on a few other items. A number of sections in the Bill deal with prison discipline and the withdrawal of various rights such as remission. We should stand back and examine this issue in the round. The automatic remission of 25% of sentences should be reviewed. It is not that I am against remission, but it should be earned. Our system should be based on a remission of sentence being earned rather than putting prisoners at risk of losing some of their remissions from time to time. If we turn the equation upside down, the onus is on the prisoner to not only be on good behaviour, but to participate in rehabilitative programmes.

In the days before the Curragh Prison closed, there were rehabilitative programmes, particularly in respect of sexual matters, but many people did not go on them because nothing would be earned by way of remission. A two-pronged approach would have greater emphasis on the issue of rehabilitation and make it clear to prisoners that if they want remission, they must engage actively with available rehabilitative services. This may be the way forward.

Regarding issues arising in the Bill, the Minister spoke about the powers of the prison governor and the appeals tribunal. There is a tendency to view the legal profession as the only one that can have something to do with such tribunals. What would a barrister in the Four Courts or a solicitor in the Kerry South constituency of the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, know about prison discipline? If we follow this process, is there a case for using people such as former prison governors, chaplains, doctors or those who have been involved in rehabilitation measures?

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