John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)

No. Deputy Perry knows from his involvement in business that it is the system that is wrong. Would people blame Deputy Perry because their packet of butter was gone off? No, they would blame the creamery. The Deputy might be asked to contact the creamery, but somebody else is accountable.

I listened to Deputy Twomey's arguments and to the examples he mentioned. To blame the Minister for MRSA is misleading and demonstrates that Fine Gael has no real policy to deal with the issue. Fine Gael did not take the opportunity to tell us its policy in this regard but diverted attention from the issue by blaming the Minister. This omission by Fine Gael is unforgivable in an Opposition and will not be forgiven when we go to the country in the coming election.

The parliamentary affairs division system of the HSE needs revision in the context of transparency and of our work as messengers for the public. We need direct access to real information from the HSE and it must be accountable on a regular basis. I know it is accountable to the House, but we want real accountability in the context of both the Committee of Public Accounts and the Joint Committee on Health and Children. I hope we will have direct access to the new commission and HIQA by way of parliamentary question and that they will come before the relevant House committees regularly to explain their situation. We do not need a focus group when parliamentarians who represent the people can become involved and help to improve the system.

I commend the Minister on the amendment she intends bringing forward on the section of the Bill relating to whistleblowers. Instead of a charter that allows every person with a chip on his or her shoulder to come forward, make a statement and point the finger, we need protection for the people working within the system who are willing to come forward with a positive contribution on how to improve it. These people need protection. In the old health board system I saw it happen far too often that when complaints were made about patients' funds, the shutters came down and it was difficult to get replies to any questions.

It is equally difficult to get replies from the HSE, but its staff, who are anxious to protect their position and integrity, inform us that there are serious difficulties with regard to the administration of accounts. This is not good enough. I asked in the Committee of Public Accounts whether an audit had been completed on the transfer from the old to the new system, but the question could not be answered. Therefore, whistleblowers who are constructive and positive on what needs correction in the system must be protected. I have seen it happen that when such people come forward with the best intentions, they are identified by the system. Then, over the course of time they end up by retiring early, or getting sick and leaving the system. Such people, with patients and the health system at heart, are a loss to the system when they end up leaving as a result of having made a complaint. Again, I commend the Minister on the amendment. It should apply in most Departments and in local government where there is a need for solid protection of whistleblowers so they will not lose their jobs or be sidelined in terms of promotion. They must be dealt with in a constructive and positive manner.

The Bill deals with how the inspectorate will engage with nursing homes or with those in care. I have taken a good look at this sector. Leas Cross has left people with a bad opinion on the issue of care of the elderly. However, we must acknowledge that within both the public and private sector those at the coalface provide an excellent service. They give excellent service in the care of the elderly and must be supported. I hope that the inspectorate will go across the sector ensuring that those who break the rules, laws and regulations are brought to justice, being fined heavily, suspended or put out of business. The response must be heavy-handed since children and the elderly are extremely vulnerable. In that regard, those on boards or providing oversight for such institutions or people in care should be professionals or have an interest beyond politics.

As part of what the Minister for Health and Children attempts regarding the HSE and legislation, she should strive towards ever less bureaucracy in the system, removing red tape and continuing to put the patient first. By doing so, she will keep a constant focus on the patient in a legislative context. The old system did not work and the new one will function, but there must be some correction to the heavy, bureaucratic approach that it now adopts.

See this speech in context