David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)

I want to speak to both amendments. Fine Gael has carefully examined the abolition of the means test and, like everyone else, has recognised the invaluable work of carers. The discussion on amendment No. 1 is timely, given that the Government unveiled its policy for care of the elderly a number of days ago. I do not know the experiences of other Deputies, but the number of calls to my office made by family members and people worried and angered by that policy is unprecedented.

While I will not go as far as Deputy Penrose and suggest the abolition of the means test, we must acknowledge the work of carers. The Minister has gone a certain way towards doing so, but we must go further. When one balances the cost of what could be possible, such as encouraging more people to care for their loved ones in their homes, with the cost of putting people in nursing homes, there is no argument. All Deputies agree that the best place for an older person is in his or her home.

I welcome the fact that the Minister has increased the carer's allowance personal rate to €200 per week in the case of caring for one person. Yesterday, Deputy Kenny cited the example of someone who is paid €100 per night to sit with an older person and do nothing more than ensure that the person does not fall over. These are the types of costs involved, but many carers do this type of work 24 hours per day, seven days per week and 365 days per year. If the older person must enter a nursing home, community hospital or elsewhere, the cost incurred by the State will be considerable, but the Minister for Health and Children's proposal to pay from beyond the grave is complicated and upsetting.

The Government should examine the option of the carer in the home. People would probably take on caring responsibilities if they were paid in their own right, which would go 90% of the way towards abolishing the means test. Retired nurses may be willing to become the carers of their neighbours if they were paid in their own right. However, as their spouses' incomes are also assessed, means testing would disqualify them from involvement and we would lose a significant opportunity.

As the Opposition cannot propose amendments that would incur charges on the State, we must table ridiculous proposals regarding reporting to the House. While there is a cost implication to the abolition of the means test, it would be balanced by what could be achieved via identifying suitable carers. For example, there must be many retired nurses in our communities who could be encouraged to become carers in their areas. We could also encourage family members who do not currently provide care for various reasons. We should examine this option carefully.

I acknowledge the Minister's statement this morning on how the matter pertinent to amendment No. 18 has been discussed by the social partners, who are the real Houses of the Oireachtas. Sometimes, I wonder which group is in charge, the social partners or the Oireachtas. It is a serious issue that we seem to be told what to do by the social partners. Democracy is not well served by such an about-turn in events. We have been elected to represent all of the people and, while I acknowledge the role of social partnership, I take issue with Ministers informing the House that the Oireachtas must accept something decided on by the social partners and the Government. It is a fundamentally undemocratic way of doing business.

However, given that this issue was not discussed here, I welcome that it was discussed at social partnership level. According to figures provided by the Carers Association, up to 3,000 children take care of older people, siblings and other family members. In recent years, I have often asked for a Government response to this issue, but there has been none and the matter has been ignored. I have challenged the Ministers for Education and Science and Social and Family Affairs in this regard.

I taught for a number of years. If a child goes to school in the morning with that type of worry and responsibility on his or her shoulders, he or she cannot study, participate or socialise properly. Socialising is particularly important for teenagers. The child will feel apart from his or her friends and peers and his or her education, social lives and health can suffer. I have called for the issue to be examined and supports to be put in place in homes and schools so that teachers and home school liaisons who become aware of children's problems and responsibilities can link up with community welfare officers, public health nurses and so on to lift some of the children's burdens. This reasonable measure has been taken in other countries. I invite the Minister to examine what is being done in Australia, which is far ahead of us.

Why has Fianna Fáil not examined the matter? Is it because there are no votes to be had from under 18 year olds? I am disappointed that nothing has been done and that the debate has turned into a talking shop. I have been involved in this issue for a number of years.

We must do more for carers. While I acknowledge what has been done, more is left to do. Nothing has been done to help young carers. That is why both amendments were tabled.

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