Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)

This amendment seeks to ensure a member of the staff of the HSE does not adjudicate in the event of an appeal presenting. That is a reasonable proposition. As the previous speaker said, what other instance can the Minister of State give us where an appeal is conducted directly by the agency which made the initial determination? It does not stand up. It is not the case in D'Olier House and it should not be the case in the appeals process vis-À-vis the entitlement to a nursing home subvention or the extent of such support that any dependent older citizen would need.

It is very important to point out that the amendment should go further. It refers to an independent person. The Bill refers to a person who may be an employee of the executive, but what of the need for specific training and for real skills, for the ability to be open to the difficulties experienced by older people? Members have given many examples of these during the debate. There are very serious and often negative consequences not only for the senior citizen, the applicant party, but also for his or her family. The appeals process should not be heard by a person just plucked out of the staff of the executive, as the presentation suggests is allowable. Neither should it just be an independent person. The person involved must be qualified with the required insight into the difficulties of life for so many people who find themselves in this situation. It is not good enough just to comply with guidelines or to consider any written or oral objections, to make a decision as is required of the holder of the position in paragraph (c) and to send a copy of the decision to the relevant applicant and the executive. The legislation should be far more specific in terms of the person or persons who should carry out the appeals function. That is a weakness in the text of the Bill and in the amendment.

The amendment, however, would make a significant improvement to the Bill. If people are to participate in an appeals process, they must have confidence in the system. Otherwise, how can they ever accept an outcome that is adverse to their understanding of their position? It is very important that this is taken on board and that the Minister of State does not go through this entire exercise with a "no, no" position — I did not add a third "no" because I will not put him in the Thatcher mould just yet. She always had three "no's". I am being nice to Deputy Seán Power, particularly given what is involved in this legislation which I find so objectionable.

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