Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)

I may be exercising a comprehensive right of reply in order to reassure the public that we are at our business.

I thank Deputies for the generous welcome that has been extended to this Bill. It is a measure of the understanding Members have for those who undertake fostering and foster care. The debate illustrated a deep understanding of the nature of the difficulties that people who engage in the fostering of children face. Even Deputy Durkan was at his most philosophical in his consideration of the legislation. I will deal in detail with the points he raised. As an analysis of contemporary society and the role of litigation therein, his contribution was extremely interesting.

I wish to begin by outlining the current position with regard to the numbers in foster care. I provided some indicative figures earlier but I have since been provided with up-to-date statistics from the HSE performance monitoring report for the second quarter — April to June — of this year. These figures have not been finally validated but it is worth placing them on the record of the House. There are over 5,193 children and young persons in the care of the State and 88% of them, or 4,561, are in foster care placements. Of the number in foster care placements, 3,130, or 68.6%, were placed with foster carers and a further 1,431, or 31.4%, were placed with relatives. I will return to the issue of relatives because many Members alluded to it.

A total of 50 children were in residential care and 106 were at home awaiting foster placements at the end of June 2006. Some 101 new and approved foster parents were recruited in the first half of 2006 and 59 foster carers permanently left the service. A total of 80.3% of approved foster carers had allocated named social workers. The question of support for foster carers was raised in the debate and I will return to it later. Approximately 88% of children in foster care have allocated named social workers. Those are the up-to-date figures and they are worth reflecting upon in the context of this debate.

I wish to place on the record another set of figures compiled in respect of an analysis of our child care interim dataset for 2004. The figures to which I refer illustrate the issues we are addressing in the legislation in a neat fashion. There were 4,243 children in foster care in 2004 and, of these, 1,509 were in care for five years or more. That is a substantial number. A child who is in care for five years or more clearly has a bonded relationship with an entirely new family. It is with this matter that the legislation is designed to deal. I can provide more detailed figures in respect of the different periods but the figure of 1,509 is important. Of those children to whom I refer, 1,118 were in general foster care. A further 11 were in foster care but were children with very special requirements who needed additional supports, 379 were in relative foster care and one was in a pre-adoptive foster placement. It is interesting that the child who was recently the subject of Supreme Court litigation was in a pre-adoptive foster placement. The figures are worth reflecting upon in the context of the Bill.

Deputy Twomey expressed a generous welcome to the Bill on behalf of the Fine Gael Party. I thank him for his comments. The Deputy's experience as a general practitioner extends way beyond the treatment of patients. As with most GPs, he is well aware of social workers and their practices and their merits and demerits. He spoke very well on that matter and raised a number of interesting points.

Deputy Twomey inquired as to how I arrived at a decision that five years should be the relevant period for the purposes of the legislation. This matter was also raised in the Upper House. It is fair to say that the Deputy is anxious to see a reduction in that period to three or even two years because he feels that this would be in the best interests of the child and the foster parents. There is a difficulty — we will probably discuss it on Committee Stage — in that there are often breaks in the continuity of foster care placement. It is difficult to secure that element of continuity. I appreciate the spirit in which Deputy Twomey raised this matter but there are difficulties in respect of it.

I considered this matter carefully and I assure Deputy Durkan that the figure of five years was not plucked out of the sky. The requirement in the Bill that a child be in the care of a foster parent or a relative for a continuous period of five years is appropriate because after five years have elapsed, foster parents or relative foster carers will be experienced and will have a sufficient level of understanding of the needs of the foster child. If there are instances of instability or interruption in the placement, it is not appropriate for foster carers to have increased autonomy in respect of the child. I accepted an amendment in the Seanad, which provided for a disregard of brief interruptions, which is important, but Members must understand that when an order is granted under the legislation in respect of a child, it means the State, through the HSE, will delegate its responsibilities for him or her to a foster carer. All the rights and obligations of the State in respect of the child can be transferred to the foster parent but this cannot be done lightly. The State must be satisfied there is an unblemished history of care on the part of the foster parent or relative. I considered this issue at length and, on balance, five years is the correct period. I have listened to the views of Members of both Houses and I will listen to the views of Deputies on Committee Stage. Periods of two and three years have been proposed but I would not entertain such a period in the context of such a far reaching delegation. I will reflect on the Second Stage debate and the upcoming debate on Committee Stage and I will take account of the views of national organisations but I am not disposed to depart from the period specified in the legislation, although I am open to further persuasion.

Deputy Twomey referred to the social services inspectorate and nursing homes. The inspectorate has done a marvellous job inspecting children's facilities and many improvements have been made. Reports are submitted to my office, which have raised questions about practices. While, on occasion, the reports have been disregarded without their recommendations being implemented, a momentum for change and improvement and appropriate standards is built up over time through them. The Deputy stated the HSE is not without imperfections and Deputy Durkan will concur with that view.

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