Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)

I am not too old to remember the orphanages in the 1970s. I was in a class in Goldenbridge for a year where there were orphans from Keogh Square, Inchicore. It left an indelible mark on me concerning poverty and the lives of children who had no parental support, a different experience to mine. In those days, there was an expectation that adults always acted in the interests of children. Unfortunately, a substantial number of notorious cases have highlighted that at times neither adults nor the State acted in the interests of children.

The legislation is thoughtful. The Minister of State is sincere in his drive to put in place a body of legislation for child protection. Apart from legislation, support networks are needed in this area. Last week, I was impressed when Nora Gibbons of Barnardo's noted that in the Baby Ann case there were lawyers for the prospective adoptive parents and the natural parents but none for the child. One cannot describe a situation as child-centred without having a mechanism that will put the child on an equal footing with other parties. This absence needs to be addressed.

I sat on the Commission on the Family for three years. With the amount of documentation presented to it, my eyesight almost suffered. My experience with the commission highlighted how difficult it would be to frame a constitutional formula in this area. The commission spent weeks simply trying to agree a definition for the family. We came to the conclusion it could not be given a definite legal term but a description as something to be nurtured and supported. It was the family function we focused on rather than a legal definition. It will be difficult to find suitable wording for the constitutional referendum on children's rights. While I believe there is a need for the referendum, the terminology and balance must be got right.

I agree with Deputy Lynch on the role of grandparents. While I accept the Bill may not provide the legislative context for their role, with people living longer, grandparents play a major role in a child's upbringing. While I was not fortunate enough to really know my grandparents, my children knew, and still know, theirs very well. To be disconnected from grandparents can be a major loss in a child's life. Given the number of children born to non-married couples, the rights of unmarried fathers must be recognised. This comes down to what is in the interests of the child. If we genuinely see the interest of the child as being central, one can see the richness a grandparent and father can bring to it. We must move away from family conflicts and find mechanisms to help families to engage with their children.

The Constitution determines the definition of the family and a foster parent is very much in loco parentis, not on the same footing as a natural parent. Foster parents have told me they have been fulfilled by the role they have played but have felt there were legal and cultural difficulties in them acting in the interests of the child. Some of the provisions in this Bill will address that issue. Giving permission for a child to go on a school tour is a good case in point. There is also an attitude to be addressed to ensure that people do not treat a foster parent differently. It is difficult enough for foster parents to feel part of a semi-permanent arrangement without meeting other obstacles highlighting that difference which are not in the child's interest. This may not be a legal issue only but also a cultural one.

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