Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)

I thought Report Stage was to deal directly with the amendments before us. It gets a bit tiresome listening to the same type of contribution, time and time again. I was tempted to ignore it all and just address the amendment before us, but seeing as though people have got such latitude it would be remiss of me not to respond to some of the stuff to which I have had to listen for the past 45 minutes.

I was asked why was I so dismissive of the proposal from Shell to Sea. It was suggested that within an hour or thereabouts I had responded to the proposal. Shell to Sea is not too slow at responding quickly and being discourteous to Ministers, mediators, experts in pipeline safety and various other people who put much time and effort into trying to resolve this difficulty over the past 18 months to two years. I seem to recall that barely before the Atvantica report was published it had been rejected by Shell to Sea. Within a half an hour of Mr. Peter Cassells — who spent seven months meeting with, speaking to and listening to people — producing his report it was dismissed out of hand. In fact, I suppose it is more accurate to state that before he even produced his report it was dismissed out of hand by spokespersons for Shell to Sea.

The proposal that Shell to Sea has now made shows quite clearly that it does not accept the Government's authority to legislate. It does not accept the EPA as an environmental agency. It does not accept An Bord Pleanála or the county council as planning authorities, and it does not accept their decisions. It will not accept world experts in pipeline safety and would not accept the bona fides of Mr. Cassells, who gave such time to try to resolve this difficulty and who did his best to get Shell to Sea to sit down in the same room with Shell. The company was willing to do that and Shell to Sea would not do it. Shell to Sea would not accept his bona fides despite the fact that it agreed to his appointment, accepted him as being neutral and accepted him as somebody who could possibly move this forward.

When things do not suit Shell to Sea, it changes very quickly. Now it wants more commissions or bodies to sit down. It wants work to stop again — anything to delay, anything to stop. It does not have a notion of changing from the position it has taken. I am speaking about Shell to Sea. I know that residents had concerns and continue to have concerns. We have done everything we possibly can to meet those and we cannot do anything further in that regard.

Deputy Cowley quoted me on poor multinationals or insinuating that maybe multinational oil exploration companies are acting out of the goodness of their heart. I never said that either inside or outside of this House. Multinational companies are involved in oil exploration to make a profit and because it is their business. They will try, in so far as they can, to get the best possible deal for themselves. I am old enough, experienced enough and have been long enough in this business to know that. I will not be fooled by them if they come in and tell me that they are considering seeking permission to explore for oil or gas off the west coast of Ireland and they are doing it for the good of my health or that of anybody else. As a Minister, my job is to try to ensure that we get the best possible deal.

There is much nonsense being spoken. Listening to some of the contributions, I could not help thinking that it sounded quite like a press release from the central office of somewhere or other. The phrases being used were quite similar to phrases that I have seen over the weekend in anonymous newspaper articles to which people do not have the courage to put their name. No doubt we will see it on Phoenix or somewhere else before too long — the transfer of licences, the possible benefits of licences, and me, as Minister, granting Providence a transfer of a licence. The licence is not worth a curse unless one discovers something and there is nothing discovered in these cases, of which Deputy Cowley spoke and in the newspaper propaganda of which he has spoken. All of these mythical profits of companies are not made until there is a discovery and until the gas or oil comes ashore.

Deputy Cowley spoke of us giving away the entire benefit to the Corrib developers. They have been in the field for ten years and no gas has been brought on shore yet. No company that engages in exploration is guaranteed to discover gas or oil. Taxing the turnover of companies at various rates was mentioned but 25% or 50% or 100% of nothing is still nothing. Exploration can involve significant expenditure before a discovery is made and, at the end of the day, of 120 wells sunk in Irish waters since 1970, approximately 115 were plugged without generating a return. There is a 30/1 chance of discovering oil or gas off the west coast. That is the ratio of success thus far. If Deputies are seriously suggesting the Government allocate hundreds of millions of euro in my Department's budget to drill wells for oil and gas, my response is "No, thank you". However, if gas is brought ashore from the Corrib or Slyne Head-Erris Head fields and the current optimistic projections about them come to pass, it will be a totally different ball game because we will then know for definite that abundant resources, as has been suggested, are available. The companies will also know that and that will leave the Government in a strong position to say, as Deputy Broughan outlined, "Hang on a second. We know there is ten trillion cubic feet of gas or oil in the field and we want a cut of this. We need a greater share". That is perfectly legitimate, as a number of companies will have benefitted from the current regime but they have taken all risks by engaging in exploration without knowing oil or gas will be discovered. It is important to bear in mind always that they will not bring oil and gas ashore for nothing. When gas is brought ashore, a corporation tax rate of 25% will apply. Based on the figures quoted in newspapers and so on, that will generate approximately €2 billion for the Exchequer at current prices. We do not give gas and oil away for nothing.

I refer to Deputy Broughan's political point regarding the behaviour of the Taoiseach when he was Minister for Finance, former Deputy and Minister, Ray Burke, Deputy Fahey when he was Minister for the Marine and me. It is strange if this issue was such a scandal and a giveaway, that when his party was in power between 1992 and 1997, it never felt the need to do something about it.

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