Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)

Their being grouped together by the Bills Office or whomever is responsible was incorrect. A central theme runs through them that all regulators, State agencies and bodies must ultimately be accountable to the people through the Oireachtas. The Executive must take final responsibility. Deputy Durkan seeks to change the approach that we have taken in a great deal of legislation in recent years. We saw it in spectacular form where the Government offloaded what are clearly its key functions to regulators or other agencies. Then, when difficulties emerge, it can say that they are not its fault but that of the regulator. For example, it was the regulator who increased gas and electricity prices, and it had nothing to do with the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, or the Government.

I unfortunately missed the Minister's speech last night, but I made the point in my contribution on escalating energy prices that there is a critical necessity to retain an ultimate role for the people and for us acting on their behalf. That is Deputy Durkan's interest and what he has tried to achieve in this series of amendments. As I said to the Minister on Committee Stage, some amendments concern the fundamental, ordinary work of the agency operating as a free-standing body and would hinder day-to-day operations. That is why I consider it important that I briefly examine each.

The first refers to the share transfer day. It makes the point that it should be subject to the approval of Dáil Éireann and meets the general thrust of what Deputy Durkan seeks to do. Amendment No. 17 concerns the objects and functions of the agency, with which amendments Nos. 19 to 25, inclusive, also deal. Regarding those amendments in particular, I support Deputy Durkan in principle. He seeks to insert into the fundamental principles and functions of the National Oil Reserves Agency the ultimate requirement that the Minister himself be responsible. For example, section 8(3) reads as follows.

The Agency has power to do anything that appears to it to be requisite, advantageous or incidental to, or appears to it to facilitate (either directly or indirectly) the performance by it of its functions as specified in or under this Act or in its memorandum of association and that is not inconsistent with any enactment for the time being in force, including power——

(a) to acquire, by purchase or otherwise, hold, store, import, export, transport and exchange oil,

Its key functions are outlined there. Deputy Durkan, in amendment No. 17, seeks to include a requirement that it be referred to Dáil Éireann where there are joint ventures, partnerships or a commercial arrangement with other persons "to construct, acquire, maintain and develop in the State". By seeking to impose that rule, we could be straying into the company's day-to-day operational affairs.

In amendment No. 19, Deputy Durkan seeks to add the requirement ", subject to the approval of Dáil Éireann". It is wrong that the amendments were grouped in this way, since it makes it very difficult for us to discuss this properly and discharge our duty as legislators. Approval would be required "to sell, as the Agency thinks fit, oil held by or on behalf of the Agency". I believe that to be part of the agency's intrinsic work, and perhaps Deputy Durkan might reconsider it, since it is clearly its central business.

Amendment No. 20 concerns property, an area where a requirement of responsibility to Parliament would be advantageous, and Deputy Durkan is right to add it to section 8(3)(i). We can think, for example, of the difficulties that have arisen regarding the port companies and the sale or otherwise of land. Deputy Durkan makes the fair point in amendment No. 20 that the agency should perhaps be required to bring major land transfers, purchases and sales before the Minister and the House. It is "with the consent of the Minister for Finance", but it could also come before Dáil Éireann.

That takes us to amendment No. 21, which deals with commercial agreements with a third party or otherwise for the purpose of enabling the agency to perform its functions. Once again, if that involved extensive changes to those functions, there could be a case for Deputy Durkan's amendment. Amendment No. 22 seeks to amend a new section dealing with additional functions:

The Minister may, with the consent of the Minister for Finance and after consulting with the Agency and any other Minister of the Government who, in the Minister's opinion, is concerned, by order assign to the Agency such additional functions connected with the functions assigned to it by or under this Act as the Minister considers appropriate.

Again, I feel there is merit in Deputy Durkan's amendment, since we might be discussing the extension of functions. I have asked the Minister, in a subsequent Labour amendment, to examine the possibility of establishing an exploration agency. The Minister opened an interesting exploration conference this morning that referred to exciting developments in the oil province. The Acting Chairman, who hails from County Mayo, alerted me to this, and it was very interesting to hear talk of an exciting oil province, given that the Minister and his predecessor had attended the House for four years and given us the poor mouth, claiming we have no energy resources and that, if we have anything, we will give it all away and let the big boys such as Shell, Statoil and the Americans take whatever we have.

Deputy Durkan's proposed insertions regarding the powers of the Minister and his colleague, the Minister for Finance, throughout the Bill are interesting. Additional functions might be developed, for example, exploration. The Minister will admit that our big problem was that the resources available to him when first appointed to the Department were not such as to give him a clear picture of what exactly was happening with hydrocarbon deposits off the Irish coast. Unfortunately, he did not follow my advice and take the Norwegian route of asking the oil companies to teach us everything that they know and train our people for a few years. When we knew what they knew, we could issue licences, decide regimes and so on. I urge the Minister, even before the general election, to frame a new licensing regime. Amendment No. 22 is very useful, and the Deputy should be commended.

Amendment No. 23 concerns the share capital of the agency and the Minister for Finance. Again, that might profitably be brought before the Oireachtas. Amendment No. 24 deals with the issue of shares, and since that relates to the initiation of the company, it may not be as significant.

Amendment No. 25 in the name of Deputy Durkan concerns memoranda and articles of association and seeks to insert "and Dáil Éireann". Memoranda and articles are so fundamental, as everyone in the House who has been a director will know, that the area should be returned to Dáil Éireann. I am not sure if Deputy Durkan will call a vote on every amendment, but in this case too the approval of Dáil Éireann could be very useful.

Many amendments have been grouped together, and since they refer to different things, we might more profitably have discussed them separately.

Amendment No. 28 relates to the board of directors. Section 14(2) states: "The directors (other than the chief executive) shall be appointed by the Minister with the consent of the Minister for Finance." The amendment is interesting because in it Deputy Durkan is seeking to return approval for the appointment of directors to Dáil Éireann. As I indicated to the Minister, I am of the view that we should follow the example of the Scottish Executive in respect of directors. The Scottish First Minister, Mr. Jack McConnell, has established an independent board to oversee the appointment of directors. Members of the public in Scotland who possess the requisite experience, enthusiasm and energy and who want to become directors of state bodies can put themselves forward. There is not, therefore, an in-crowd comprising people who tend to become directors of everything and another group of individuals who are not considered. I would prefer if we proceeded along those lines and transferred the appointment of directors into an independent sphere so that it would not be a case of Buggin's turn or jobs for the boys coming into play, or of party hacks being appointed as directors. However, I understand the spirit of Deputy Durkan's amendment.

Amendment No. 34 relates to the allowances and expenses of members of the board of directors, a matter Deputy Durkan wishes to be brought to the attention of Dáil Éireann. The Minister will recall that a major debate took place when the Minister doubled or trebled the salary of the chairperson of An Post for a number of days' work per week. That matter was not brought to the attention of the House until a parliamentary question was tabled in respect of it. I again understand the spirit of Deputy Durkan's amendment.

Amendment No. 39 refers to the strategy statement and the period specified by the Minister. Section 15 states that the strategy statement shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. That is currently the case but it is then the responsibility of Members to inquire about it on the Order of Business. We are fed up asking questions in that regard. Yesterday, Deputy Gilmore asked that an important report be laid before the House and, even though the Deputy was clearly within his rights, the Ceann Comhairle tried not to accede to his request. There is merit in amendment No. 39 because it would ensure that a discussion would take place in respect of the strategy statement. We are engaged in historic work dealing with this Bill and, consequently, this is one of the most important days in the history of exploration and the management of energy resources in Ireland.

Amendment No. 44 relates to the power to establish subsidiaries. I am not sure about this in the context of the operations of State agencies or bodies. The chief executive and the board of directors of the new agency should be given maximum flexibility in respect of its operation. In such circumstances, I am obliged to diverge from Deputy Durkan because I do not know whether it is necessary to put that matter before the House. If we were to operate in this way in respect of the 500 or so State agencies, we would get little other work done.

Amendment No. 45 is similar and relates to the memorandums and articles of association of each subsidiary. Again, I am of the view that it might be useful to leave the management of the new agency with a free hand to carry out work in this regard on its own.

Amendment No. 48 relates to the directors of subsidiaries and the fact that they may be appointed and removed. I again diverge from Deputy Durkan in this regard. I do not agree with this amendment because I would like the chief executive and the board to have operational freedom.

Amendment No. 51 relates to the terms of the chief executive's contract. Section 19 states:

(3) The chief executive holds office for such period and subject to terms and conditions (including terms and conditions relating to remuneration and allowances for expenses) that the directors appointed under section 14(2) may, with the approval of the Minister given with the consent of the Minister for Finance, determine.

I am inclined to opt for the board, in operational terms, having rights in this regard. On each occasion Deputy Durkan saw reference in the Bill to the Ministers for Finance and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, a red light began to flash——

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