Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

As Deputy Rabbitte is aware, there are, on the face of it, powers to deal with a number of these issues under several legislative measures. However, they have not proven to be effective over a long time. While the Deputy noted that the Bill is from 2002, the Bill that we had approved is from the late 1990s as the issue was discussed in the late 1990s and in 2000. In the view of the Minister's officials, the Bill in question can be improved considerably.

As for the legislation regarding the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, while there are no rocket science issues involved, it is a question of being able to table a Bill with the legal powers to in some way curtail, prevent and control legally based organisations in such a way that they cannot levy punitive interest rates on those who are, as the Deputy correctly noted, marginalised, excluded or affected. I refer to those who find themselves with no alternative except to borrow what are usually relatively small amounts of money, but who pay exorbitant rates. It is a question of introducing legislation that can do something in this regard.

The Minister has advised me that he awaits this legal advice. However, the Deputy and I are aware that this has been attempted since the 1960s, back in the days when money launderers and moneylenders operated in this city and elsewhere. To my knowledge, an effective way of dealing with them — when legalised — has not been found. There is an effective way of dealing with illegal operators who operate outside the system. It is a question of whether this can be done. This is the point on which the Minister is waiting. The difficulty or delay does not lie with the remainder of the proposals regarding the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, other initiatives and whether credit unions can help — credit unions are already very helpful in this regard. It is a question of whether one can control or curtail such people. When the Minister receives his advice in this regard, he will be able to proceed with the Bill.

See this speech in context