Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I will address both issues. Obviously, I cannot comment on the circumstances of a case that is before the Supreme Court but, when the case concluded in the High Court last March, I made it clear that the Government had asked the State Claims Agency — the statutory body which deals with legal fees — to approach the issue of costs in a measured and sensitive way. The woman lost her case in the High Court and, because there was a large bill, I said we would do that. I understand the State Claims Agency told the lady's solicitor on the record at an early meeting that while some arrangements would have to made regarding costs there was no question whatsoever of her losing her house — so that does not arise. However, the lady's solicitor informed the agency that she intended to appeal the case to the Supreme Court, so obviously I could not go any further. If she did not want us to deal sympathetically and in a measured way with the issue at the end of the High Court case, but wished to proceed to the Supreme Court, as was her right, then I could do nothing. In any case the High Court has put a stay on the costs pending the termination of the Supreme Court appeal, so I can go no further in that.

On the second issue raised by the Deputy, 14,000 applications have been made by people in residential institutions to the redress board. These are vulnerable people who were in institutions, either sent there by the State or under joint authority by the State, which was jointly responsible. When seven years ago I gave the apology for how these people were treated, because their lives were ruined and destroyed, we said we would set up a redress board — the numbers have increased from the originally envisaged 6,500 to 7,000 cases — and to give these people awards of court. This was the right and humane thing to do. The State would have had to pay for these charges. In our view the State was responsible. They were State institutions or institutions run by religious to which the State sent these people. The State, in our view, is liable for that. The figures are higher, but we will not stop half way down and state we cannot pay the people involved. There was the deadline of last December which showed that we would have cumulative average awards of approximately €76,000 and legal and administrative costs of approximately 20%. We have paid those costs. I make no apology for paying those people to whom I made an apology and for whom we set up a redress system.

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