Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

As I said earlier, these were loans with interest, not from businessmen but friends. My friends have been described as businessmen but the impression given that they are captains of industry is far from the truth. They are people who assisted me at a particular time because they knew the circumstances. I accepted that only on the basis these were loans with interest. That is the position.

Every person appointed to a State board whether by myself or my colleagues is someone we believe is qualified for such an appointment. They are appointments based on merit taking into account the particular combination of skills, qualifications, background and life experience that each person has. Over a long political career I know a great many people who have been appointed to key boards. I knew these people. They had relevant skills and experience. Three of the five had served on State boards long before they gave me any loan. The other two could be considered under any fair examination to be outstanding people who served the State well on these boards. I do not accept the position outlined.

Deputy Joe Higgins can make the point that all of this is a bit of fun. I do not see it as a bit of fun but as a serious issue. As regards paying them back and how, he could be right in saying that I should have paid them back. Perhaps I should have just paid them back and not worried how it would be interpreted, although I had taken the initiative of giving documentation to the tribunals. I should have been able to say that I had paid them back over several years. I did not do it that way because I thought that would be seen as just doing it at that particular time. I followed the advice I got to the effect that these matters could not come out, and that I should keep the interest and the paperwork up to date.

Deputy Rabbitte asked me earlier whether there was documentation on the circumstances of these loans from the individuals concerned. There is comprehensive documentation and it is with the tribunal as well. On the issue of the Deutsche Bank and the forgery, the tribunals, I believe, have finished with that matter. I mention it because again, it was a sinister act to try to set me up by suggesting I had extensive accounts. I am not making a point about it, however it shows the things one has to try and deal with. That is why I dealt with the tribunals so comprehensively.

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