Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)

I am not sure whether I or Deputy Shortall should endeavour to answer the questions raised. We are on section 4, which deals with mandatory alcohol testing. This is more appropriately a matter for section 10 but I will deal with it now. It is not necessary to stipulate the conditions under which learner permits have effect in the Act. Those are dealt with in regulation. I appreciate the point Deputy Shortall is seeking to provide for, but detailed requirements concerning conditions to be met regarding eligibility for a learner permit and any renewal thereof should be set out in regulation rather than in the Act which should deal with the enabling provisions.

Deputies have spent the past 45 minutes attacking me for not doing anything and putting matters off. I am happy that what I have achieved in road safety in the 18 months since I came into office has been to the point and that I have fulfilled much of what people sought for many years. The record in that regard will speak for itself.

This different arguments surrounding the issue of learner permits and who should have what, where and when must be teased out. I have had more suggestions and ideas from people on this issue than on any other and continue to get them daily, verbally or otherwise, from those who visited other countries. That is their right. On its appointment, the Road Safety Authority identified this issue as one of the key ones it wants to resolve and on which it wants to move forward.

Irrespective of whatever happened with different Ministers, I have set out to tackle the backlog which I agree is unacceptable. People driving on their own on provisional licences is unacceptable. It is wrong that someone can drive into a test centre, do a test, fail it, get back in their car and drive on the road again. That is beyond debate. It is wrong and we will have to change it but I do not want to change it in a way that discredits the whole process. There is little point in changing the system if we cannot implement the change we legally bring about. Issues must be resolved before we do that.

It is wrong to say we are dealing with only 40,000 tests. Of more than 100,000 tests — the backlog is approximately 130,000 — 40,000 as a proportion were outsourced but with the additional contracted workers we have brought in, the bonus scheme we put in place and our own driver testers, the majority of that proportion will be dealt with under the scheme. That sets us fair to change the learner driver approach radically.

I have sympathy with what Deputy Cowley said but I do not see any way we could have an amnesty for people driving on our roads, irrespective of who they are, without having done a test. There was an amnesty many years ago and I do not intend going down that road for any particular group. A number of people approached me on this issue. One lady who was driving on a provisional licence for 35 years told me that she presumed she would not be included in any future developments and that she would have to sit a test. She said she was an excellent driver and could not understand why she would have to take a test. I was trying to establish why she never took the test but I did not get an answer to the question. This woman was young, in her mid-40s. Now that I am a bit older I consider people that age to be young.

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