Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

To some extent, banks and places of entertainment could do much more videoing and external surveillance in the immediate precincts of their premises to stop cash in transit incidents from taking place. There are some privacy issues. In general terms, I favour Deputy Ó Snodaigh's argument that we should have the keeping of a good record as a medium-term aim. We also need to consider whether the records would have an audio element. Should we record pictures but not sound? I am aware, from my career as a barrister and from cases which have come to light since then, that video footage without any sound was recorded in some instances. In such circumstances, one has to wonder what was actually happening between the two people on screen. Were they having a polite exchange or was one of them threatening to do something awful to the other? When one suddenly sees a flare-up of violent behaviour on screen, one wonders what preceded it. Was one person refusing to so something, or making violent threats towards somebody else? When one sees a sudden eruption of violence, one wonders what exactly was being said by the two people in question. The audio surveillance of Garda stations would probably be considered to be very intrusive. It is a matter of degree.

I do not propose to accept Deputy Ó Snodaigh's amendments. I agree with him, in general terms, that a video record should be kept of what happens in places where people in custody are brought unless there is some very strong reason that should not take place. That should generally be the case. I look forward to learning of the outcome of the two pilot projects. For example, will it be judged that it makes sense to have video surveillance of the corridors leading to cells, but no video surveillance of what happens when gardaí go into those cells with people who have been accused of crimes? Will we move the potential battlefield for swearing matches inside the cell door? Will we achieve anything in such circumstances? Deputy Ó Snodaigh mentioned the Dean Lyons case. As I understand it, Mr. George Bermingham SC is well on the way to finishing his task in that regard. He has finished taking statements from the people involved and is compiling his report. He hopes to complete the report this summer.

A Garda survey that was conducted in June 2005 indicated that 98.1% of interviews, as specified in the 1995 electronic recording of interview regulations, were being recorded. Less than 2% of interviews were not recorded for some reason, mainly because the arrested person declined to have the interview recorded or the room was already in use for another video recording or was otherwise unavailable. As I said the last time we discussed this matter, we are moving towards the universal recording of relevant interviews. It will always be the case that 1% or 2% of interviews are not recorded for some reason.

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