Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

The issue of a democratic deficit comes up continually and I have answered the question several times. The social partnership process is not anti-democratic because it is based on a recognition of the proper and distinct roles of Government, and the legitimate contribution to public life of the social partners who, in their own right, exercise significant influence over the broad economic and social life of this country. As employers, trade unions, farm bodies and voluntary organisations, they play an enormous role in civil society. In all of the six agreements to date, they have made an enormous contribution in terms of trying to resolve problems, examining new issues and amending the way we do things. Each agreement has evolved from the previous one and all have been based on the assessment by NESC every few years and on reports by the NESF, where there is a strong representation of this House and the Seanad.

Employers, trade unions, farm bodies and voluntary organisations play a huge role in issues every day. Their independent decision making and behaviour has a profound effect on employment, living standards, productivity and quality of life issues. It is entirely democratic to recognise and respect their independent roles and contribution. At the same time, the social partners recognise that the Government in this process is not simply the first among equals. They appreciate fully that the Government must insist on, and exercise fully, its prerogatives within the framework of political accountability. That is not an issue with the social partners and never has been over the last 19 years.

As in the past, the Government has entered the negotiations on the basis of its programme for Government. We have maintained close ministerial contact and oversight of the negotiations throughout. The terms of the draft agreement were approved in every respect by the relevant Minister who is answerable in this House on those issues.

On every agreement, the reports are put before the House. I have answered approximately 400 questions on social partnership and Sustaining Progress and have participated in debates in the Seanad. Even though this agreement is in draft form, there has already been a debate on it in the Seanad. Any money that is spent on the programmes must go through the Estimates process and Ministers are answerable to committees of the House for it.

Admittedly, the negotiations do not take place in this House and Members are not involved in the negotiations but the issues that arise are contained in reports that have been raised here. I do not believe there is a democratic deficit. Having been involved in this process for the best part of 20 years, I would like Members of the House to read about and take more interest in the process. However, that is a different issue. Members are busy, involved in committees and so forth and I understand the pressures on them. Nonetheless, it would be useful for Members to go through the reports laid before the House——

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