Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

I move amendment No. 41:

In page 24, between lines 25 and 26, to insert the following:

"12.—Save with the leave of the court which may be given only if the exceptional circumstances of the case so require, a statement by a person during a formal interview in Garda custody shall not be admitted in any prosecution against that person unless the interview is videorecorded and such videorecording is produced at the trial.".

This allows me to deal briefly with video-taping. It was linked to the requirement that detainees would be held in Garda stations equipped with audio and video-recording equipment. The amendment states: "Save with the leave of the court which may be given only if the exceptional circumstances of the case so require, a statement by a person during a formal interview in Garda custody shall not be admitted in any prosecution against that person unless the interview is videorecorded and such video-recording is produced at the trial".

I am fully aware of the downside of failures of video-recording etc. but if we are to have confidence in the legal system it should be the discipline to require whatever backups and supports exist to ensure one does have functioning video equipment in Garda stations and that one can produce the result of the interview. The notion that the equipment broke down is like the excuse that the dog ate my exercise book. There needs to be a requirement to safely ensure the recording of interviews. I do not wish to refer again to the Morris tribunal, but concerns exist and if we are going to give significant powers to the Garda we need to balance that with ensuring there is proper recording.

On Committee Stage the Minister referred to European comparisons that were much more draconian but the detention measure is significant in our context and tradition. It is accepted across the House that this protects not only the people being interviewed but the interviewers as well against malicious or false claims of mistreatment or ill treatment subsequently. This should be set down in legislation so that everybody knows the ground rules and there should be a requirement for it. The Minister said there may be a malfunction or some other awful thing could happen, but it is true of everything we lay down in law that there could be some slip-up and there probably will be some cases where we will throw our hands up but the requirement to record should be mandatory because the generality of it will protect both the Garda and people who are called in for interview.

I accept that a significant expansion of the service is taking place. I take the opportunity to abuse the position to refer to Wexford Garda station which is listed among the ten worst in the country. As a divisional headquarters it really is a disgrace. We do need proper facilities for the Garda. There is no point in saying one can detain people if there is not enough space to interview anybody never mind videotape anybody. We need to ensure proper modern facilities are provided for the Garda to conduct business in an appropriate way.

Based on the complaints I get about decent customer services when people visit Garda stations, customer relations must be put higher on the agenda of the training regime. However, that is a matter for another day. I do not wish to introduce a less important issue into what is a very important issue, namely, ensuring that people properly in custody for protracted periods of time will be assured that their interviews are video-recorded and that in the absence of video-recording their testimonies will not be used in a court against them.

See this speech in context