Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

We could find ourselves very glad to get a chunk of wood from a tree to throw into the back of a burner or a stove to keep the house warm. In the promotion of the various schemes, which are fine in themselves, we are all agreed it would be very wise to keep the chimney for a variety of reasons, including emergencies, in the event of a cutback in the supplies of fuel. It might always be easier to get a supply of a locally based fuel than to obtain it from a source 150 to 200 miles away, depending on what part of the country one lives in. I have already mentioned the need for adequate and sufficient oil reserves. I hope the Minister of State will take that on board to ensure, for instance, that we have sufficient oil reserves, as required. At the same time we should develop alternatives and use them wherever they exist. If we do not do that we will face serious difficulties.

I have referred to the need to develop clean energies for the future and this is important. This goes back to where I started, concerning the need for short, medium and long-term plans. One must start somewhere, so there must be a short-term plan. This should provide that within a specified period targets are set for achieving certain milestones in the first three to five years. Otherwise, if something happens in the meantime we will be in trouble. If that is done and scientific research and development takes over, we can have an important role to play in our own and other economies in future.

Energy, fuel or power needs in this country should not be discussed without reference to our European colleagues. I say this in the context of the overall need for energy. Depending on where one lives in Europe, one will rely on diverse forms of energy. It is correct that we should develop alternatives. Many other European countries, however, do not tell us the alternatives they have. For example, some countries enjoy a great deal of hydropower, by virtue of the fact they have elevated areas, waterfalls and volumes of water in rivers which give them the advantage, and they can afford to provide a great deal of power in an environmentally friendly way in the production of electricity. A number of European countries have set a good example in terms of developing biofuels. They were ahead of us and I cannot understand this because we should have identified these problems a long time ago. We do not have as many varied alternatives, so we must develop them. They have developed targets and they have short, medium and long-term plans along with a blend of choices — hydro, fossil fuels, wind and nuclear.

I shall take the last one first. Many newspaper articles in recent times theorise and highlight the merits and developments of nuclear energy. They quite blatantly assert that modern nuclear energy is clean, safe, reliable and environmentally friendly in every sense of the word. I am not so sure about that. I do not believe our European experiences in recent years do anything to reassure us and I should be very wary of taking that particular road at the current time, for whatever reasons. It might well be economically viable and a solid means of providing power. The safety issue arises all the time. One outcome must be balanced against the other. On the basis of performance to date, I do not accept it is an option at this stage — perhaps in 20 or 25 years time it will be but I do not know. Technology advances all the time and there will be developments. One has just to recall what happened in the past and the technology is just the same.

At the accession of some of the new EU member states, the raft of ten, there were objections from some European countries to the fact that some of the former communist states had old-fashioned technology in terms of nuclear power. In fact they had the same technology as other states. It was no different and everything depended on how it was being maintained. We are not ready for nuclear energy and I do not believe we should go there. It is no reflection on anything we choose to do, but if we cannot build a swimming pool that keeps the water in, and a tunnel that keeps the water out, I should be very dubious about building a nuclear power station and locating a reactor here. There are so many aspects to the whole area, the safety factor in particular, that I am a long way from being reassured. I ask the Minister of State to keep that in mind. I know the Taoiseach has already said that, but that does not prevent speculation in some journals. The intent is quite clear. There are people who have an interest in promoting the nuclear idea. My reason for saying that is simply that this will affect the whole energy requirement throughout Europe. Many of our European colleagues already have a considerable reliance on nuclear energy, including those that are environmentally friendly. Since the technology is already in place, I will not comment on it. However, our situation is somewhat different. When we produce a balanced, reliable energy policy, we must have regard to the necessity to reduce fossil fuels, increase the use of renewable sources of energy and ensure we have a secure supply.

Wind energy is the cleanest energy possible, although some people object to turbines on hilltops. Turbines do not work so well in a valley, but they do on the slope of a hill. Some people are concerned about them, but I feel it is a clean means of producing energy. However, there must be a back-up if the national grid is to be maintained. That back-up is only as good as it is reliable. Many of our European colleagues are keen on nuclear energy, because they can marry the two and solve many problems. We are supposed to be talking about oil, but I have spent much time on wind energy because we will have to reduce our dependence on oil, whether we like it or not, notwithstanding the need to provide a secure supply for a limited period. We need to show intent. We need to give an indication on what we will do in the future. We need to tell our European colleagues about our intentions towards this blend of fuels.

In the next ten years, there will be a major development in electricity-powered cars. The way in which electricity is generated is an issue that follows from that.

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