Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

Deputy Joe Higgins is correct with regard to armaments in Africa. Five civil wars are underway there at present, and in their absence, the amount of available resources in the affected countries and in the region generally would massively help their development. This has been an ongoing issue for the past ten or 20 years, since the early 1980s. It has been an issue since AIDS ravished these countries, from 1982 onwards.

However, greater co-operation exists in this respect than was evident five years ago, or than was visible at some of the World Bank conferences which I attended more than ten years ago. At least, the African nations, groups and bodies are making an effort to deal with these issues, to help one another and to move away from such wars. While I would like to be able to state they are making considerable progress, at least they appear to be making some progress. An enormous amount of money is involved. While everyone makes this point, it probably goes over the head of most of those who are involved in the various wars and related activities.

There are a number of issues, including the availability of drugs. The objective is to be able to acquire drugs at prices which are affordable to such people. The only way to do so quickly is through the co-operation of the drug companies and member states. This has improved dramatically and while it is costly, it remains the best course of action. This has helped and stabilised the situation in many countries.

However, this does not really reverse the enormous numbers of people who suffer from HIV-AIDS. The figures throughout most of the states, with a few exceptions, are still frightening. The Irish aid effort is to try to pick individual places, such as the Mozambique programme, and Kenya, and to try to have an impact on them. However, a more dramatic impact could be made if everyone gave a fair slice of resources.

As for my meeting with the governor of Aceh, I did not have a long discussion with him. They are making some progress with the Indonesians and are hopeful that, with much regional assistance, further progress will be made.

Most of my discussions pertained to the humanitarian effort and to the number of Irish groups which have direct involvement there and which not only contributed aid but which still provide help and assistance. However, the Achenese have a sense that in the aftermath of this terrible tragedy and the devastation it caused, they are making some progress on their political agenda. Nevertheless, they remain in a frightful position. It will take them a number of years to stabilise the tsunami's effects. Obviously, they were thankful to Ireland for the relief and recovery effort and appealed for such efforts to be continued for some time.

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