Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I am replying to a question. As I said in my reply, I accept the thrust of the recommendation of the Standards in Public Office Commission and my Department is considering the most appropriate arrangements to meet the commission's concern. The Government will make the point I have expressed to obtain clarification. If we can resolve the matter at that level, then we can do so. If obtaining clarification requires reference to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, we can obtain it in this way, but I hope that would be avoidable.

My point is about the merit of changing from a system that works very well at present to a more formal one that I do not believe is necessary. If the view is that it is necessary, so be it. I checked on a given week and noted that at least nine Ministers, or either backbenchers or Opposition Members, would have had a direct reference to a civil servant for bona fide reasons. These would have included obtaining clarification, understanding or a briefing from somebody dedicated to a specific area. I do not see what is wrong with this. It has gone on from time immemorial and I do not understand the reason for changing it.

The presence of a civil servant at a parliamentary party meeting would be very rare. I can understand that point but I remember many occasions on which a civil servant attended a meeting of a parliamentary party committee. There is no real difference between a parliamentary party and a parliamentary party committee. If one were to say addressing such a body should not be possible unless it is on an all-party basis, one would, by extension, have to include anyone, be he or she a backbencher, front bench spokesperson, member of the Opposition or otherwise. I am not referring to the current Opposition but talking about what has been happening here for years. I do not believe this is necessary because the current system functions very well. On many occasions while in Opposition, I was able to benefit from a civil servant giving an explanation.

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