Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

On the second issue, everyone has an obligation to fill in their forms. People are now familiar with them and are aware of their duties in this regard. In so far as they have filled in the forms, I am satisfied.

On the first question, as I said, I accept the point made by the Standards in Public Office Commission. While the commission concluded that the complaint did not warrant commencement of an investigation, it gave its view on this matter. Obviously, we will try to work out how it can be implemented. While a number of points are involved, I have brought it to the attention of the Cabinet, Ministers of State and the Government secretariat. We must try to work out what the commission's views mean in effect.

According to everyone who has examined this matter, the commission's recommendation states that a civil servant should not be engaged in such briefing to avoid showing partiality to one side rather than the other. While all Members understand this, it has ramifications, because for as long as I have been around, and indeed since the 1924 Act, officials have given briefings on technical or complex issues to Ministers, Ministers of State, or, as they were known, Parliamentary Secretaries, and backbenchers. They have rarely done so at parliamentary party meetings — parliamentary party committees are effectively the same. Officials also have provided briefings to Opposition spokespersons and to those Members of the Oireachtas who have contacted them. Hence, one instance cannot be taken in isolation.

From my experience and from that of those who have been around longer, this is a beneficial and useful way for Members of the Oireachtas to deal with technical and complex issues. Such officials may have been studying a particular issue for years and would be able to explain it.

This matter cannot be dealt with in a strict political sense, and, as Deputy Rabbitte has put it, Fianna Fáil does not try to politicise it. As the Deputy is aware, this is not the case as such briefings are to try to explain an issue. Hence, this must be examined. In the view of everyone who has read the recommendation, it means civil servants can only engage in a briefing with Members of the Oireachtas on an all-party basis. If that is the case, we must consider how that can be arranged, as well as the degree of formality which is thereby introduced into a system that has worked informally for decades. That is not a good thing and brings a level of formality where it is not necessary. It must be structured accordingly. An official attending a parliamentary party or committee meeting with a Minister, giving information by telephone or meeting a Member of the Opposition or a backbencher is exactly the same.

As always, I will accept the judgment of the Standards in Public Office Commission. However, we must engage to see how we can make such a ruling work in effect. Ultimately, we would have to amend the code of conduct for office holders. We must find a way that makes this work meaningful and helpful rather than something that works against the system. I am honoured to have served on both sides of this House and held many positions, including Government backbencher, Opposition backbencher, Minister of State, Minister and Taoiseach. To implement this as written will not be good for the Oireachtas in the future.

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