Damien English (Meath, Fine Gael)

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak about this Bill. The Minister criticised the fact that so many Members spoke about the Bill but I am disappointed that more Members did not speak about it. Approximately one-third of Members have spoken, which is not very much when one is talking about such an important Bill. Nearly every speaker said the same thing and much of what was said did not relate to this Bill. I hope the Minister will note everything else that was said and introduce a few more Bills to correct these problems and save 55 speakers from having to peddle the same arguments. This shows the frustration caused by the planning system.

Much of this frustration is caused by a bad system and a lack of staff. There are insufficient staff levels in the various sections. Planning itself is a grey area and will vary. Everyone's story will be different. Mr. A's planning case will differ from that of Mr. B but to the average Joe Soap, they are the same. Ordinary people do not have the time to read why a decision was made in favour of one individual but not in favour of another individual. The system is complicated and the lack of sufficient staff makes the problem twice as bad. It makes it very difficult to work with the community, council and planning department in respect of various types of infrastructural projects.

I welcome this Bill, although it requires some changes, because it might help fast-track certain developments. I do not agree with the Minister of State's assertion in his opening speech that it is the key to delivering the infrastructure we need to sustain and improve our quality of life. The Bill is not that important, although it may help. However, it is more important to put more staff into planning departments and An Bord Pleanála to ensure that we get proper and quick decisions. This Bill might advertise the importance of planning and getting things done but it is not a magic wand that will save this country.

In Meath, which I will use as an example because I know it best, planners are attempting to produce local area plans. A total of five plans are being produced in Navan, where I live, while two plans are also needed for Trim and Kells, respectively. However, only one planner is working on this process yet we expect to receive quick decisions and answers and good planning. We cannot expect our planners to do this. Planners will take cases akin to the army deafness cases against the State for driving them insane. They are being driven insane trying to carry out serious work in terrible conditions. It is not good enough. None of these Bills will make a difference if we do not give them additional resources and staff. An Bord Pleanála is to receive an additional €270,000 to cater for this Bill if it is introduced this year. This amount will not achieve much. We must be realistic. It is possible to pass some of these development charges back to the developer. The council can increase its charges. There are ways of doing this so that it is not a financial burden on the State. We must examine the matter because the lack of trained staff is affecting our quality of life.

It has led to a lack of faith in the system. The Irish people are already doubting Thomases but a system that is not working properly gives people ammunition to object to every development and bring their objections to every level of the planning process. They do not believe in our system because it is hard to figure out. This fuels ideas of conspiracies. It appears that the big players always win. One rarely encounters a case where a minor player wins even if he or she is in the right. No wonder people have no faith in our system because it does not appear to work. I have a great deal of faith in some areas of it but it does not appear to work generally, which is the key factor. Introducing a Bill which is perceived to push projects through the process without consultation adds to people's lack of confidence in the system. I am confident the Bill does not really do this but this is what people think, which allows them to scaremonger. This shows the importance of not doing things too quickly.

I agree with the Minister's assertion that people deserve a better planning system. However, it is the Government to which he belongs and which has been in power for a long period that presides over the current planning system. This Bill has been discussed for a long time but nothing has been done. Even in the absence of this Bill, much more could be done to sort out the planning system.

The Bill is supposed to help us power our homes and businesses, deliver people to their places of work and study and goods to market and provide clean water and solutions to waste problems. These are all the projects this Bill is supposed to fast-track. Taking power and waste as examples, what prevented any Government, regardless of who was in power, coming forward with a plan a few years ago that argued that this country needed between one or three incinerators or whatever was needed; that it intended to convince the Irish people that the plan was safe and could work, as has happened in other countries; and it planned to state where it planned to locate these incinerators? No Government ever took a lead on this question. Incinerators sneaked in over councillors' heads and were put to one side. Incinerators are allowed in this country but nobody takes a lead on the question. We are now faced with a raft of applications from all over the country to build eight or nine incinerators when the country does not need them, although it might need two or three of them. Proper planning is about leadership on any key infrastructural project, be it an incinerator or a more popular project. The Government has no problem announcing popular projects, such as the national spatial strategy or decentralisation plans which might bring jobs in their wake, but when it comes to bad news, it is very slow to take the lead and engage in proper planning.

If people stood up and stated that Ireland needs power and waste management facilities and other necessary projects, such as two or three incinerators, they could be developed. The Government could then decide that there needs to be one in each region or county, whatever is necessary. The Government should take some difficult decisions. The Minister talks about giving power back to councils after the Government took power from them in many decision-making processes relating to power and waste management. The decision to take power from councillors was correct in certain circumstances because many councillors do not want the power to introduce unpopular decisions. It suits them to be able to blame the Government or the EU. There is no point taking power away and then stating that it needs to be restored. We need a concise approach to the matter that will always involve local authority members and give them a proper say in both popular and unpopular decisions.

According to the Bill, councillors will have access to the executives of An Bord Pleanála, a provision with which I have no difficulty. This access is present in oral hearings but councillors have not been listened to. One oral hearing with which I am familiar was held on a strategic development zone, SDZ. This is another great planning concept to deliver fast development that involves planning and developing a piece of land all at once rather than one field at a time. The idea behind it was sound but SDZs have yet to be introduced so there is something wrong with the system. We have all these great ideas but the system lets us down. At the oral hearing, we had access to the staff of An Bord Pleanála. The local councillors, who knew about local traffic and infrastructural problems, knew most about the number of vehicles the roads in the town could take but were told by An Bord Pleanála that they were wrong in their estimation of phasing for traffic. We were told that our roads could take more than 1,000 more cars. An Bord Pleanála did not believe there was any point in listening to local councillors but they are the ones who deal with problems on the ground. There is no point stipulating in this Bill that local councillors will have a greater chance to have a say if they will not be listened to. Planners think they know everything but they do not. They do not live in all these towns so they cannot know everything. They should listen and make some changes.

If an inspector from An Bord Pleanála visits a site, be it that of a major infrastructural project or house, and submits a report that is overruled by the board, people are surely entitled to an explanation. It does not make much sense if the evidence collected by the expert sent out to investigate the matter is set aside and the decision is taken anyway. This does not boost faith in the system. This is what is wrong with this country and why people object to every development. They feel they must object because they do not trust those in charge to do the right thing on their behalf.

Any new Bill or changes must guarantee that proper procedures will be followed for the right reasons. The Minister of State spoke about how the Bill will help deliver the national spatial strategy. This strategy passed over the county and town I represent. It forgot to mention County Meath and its main town, Navan. The town was referred to in one line in the section dealing with the greater Dublin region. The greater Dublin region is not doing anything for Navan. The strategy gives it houses, but no proper developments.

Interestingly, the Minister said the economic success of the greater Dublin region is based on rail connectivity. Navan is the only town that does not have rail connectivity and will not have it for at least ten years under this Government. There is a plan, which we are told is great, but we do not act on it.

Rail is a separate issue and I will revert to it with the Minister for Transport. Counties such as Meath and towns such as Navan are ideal spots to provide springboard links from the city of Dublin to the hub towns. What do we call the other ones?

See this speech in context