Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

Like many Members, I have read numerous suggestions to the effect that we should bring forward for discussion the more substantive related issues, which did not involve not legal points but which are connected to social policy and behavioural matters. Some of this thinking is already being reviewed by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has asked his officials to prepare, as a matter of priority, a suggested agenda of the issues to be discussed by the all-party committee. It is not a conclusive list and nobody is taking the committee for granted in organising the independent expert review of existing law as regards sex offenders. Support arrangements for the victims of sex offenders will involve a number of Government bodies and will include the Garda Síochána and the Health Service Executive. The Minister is planning to submit his proposals to Government in this regard. In my view, the all-party committee should deal with these issues and reach agreement on when to report back. I hope these issues, which relate to the future, can be dealt with in a non-partisan way in the House.

One of the issues involved is the taking of video evidence from child victims. Section 17 of the Criminal Justice Act 1992 provides that the video recording of any evidence given by a person under 17 years of age in respect of sexual or violent offences shall be admissible at a trial. There are also issues relating to the committee established by the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue. It was the view of the current Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that we needed the professional opinion and guidance of the experts in this field. It is important that some of these issues, such as video recording and others, are examined by the HSE, the Garda and others. If the House wishes, I can set down the points and circulate them to the party leaders. It is not, however, a conclusive list. A number of other issues were raised in recent days that have also been included.

As regards what Deputy Rabbitte said at the outset, I appoint all members of the Government and I am well aware of my responsibilities. Deputy Rabbitte will also know that we have been dealing with this issue since the Supreme Court case emerged into the public domain 15 days ago. I dealt with it in this House up to last Tuesday and continued to be in contact with my colleagues. Deputy Rabbitte is entitled to his opinion, with which I differ. Last week, we enacted new legislation to ensure there would be no gap and we successfully resisted the release from jail of convicted prisoners.

I outlined earlier the position of the Attorney General in this matter. He was involved in the preparation of counsel in November-December 2002. He was not — although his office was — updated thereafter. Whatever court procedures are cited, I am providing the factual position. The Attorney General's office deals with thousands of cases and it did not refer back to him as per the procedures and protocols. That is the position. I am glad Deputy Rabbitte is in no way suggesting the case was not fought through to the end.

I read all of the statements made in the House last week in the heat of debate. I have attended Cabinet meetings, in one form or another, or served on my party's Front Bench for almost 25 years. It is not the case that when a judgment is due somebody says that if it is goes against us we should introduce legislation to provide for that out of the bottom drawer, or if we win it, we will do this. I remember cases where people put some thought into what might happen in particular cases, but it is not the general procedure — comments to this effect were thrown around here last week.

The legal team arguing and fighting this case and doing its best on it, having won the High Court case, was doing all it could. If the Attorney General had been informed as per the procedures, that would not have made any change to their case. The staff in the DPP's office and the Attorney General's office were doing their utmost to win a case. They have hundreds of important cases. If they feel that a case is going badly wrong, perhaps they raise the issue more than in other cases, or perhaps the Attorney General writes to me. That does happen. There is hardly a day I do not get a letter from the Attorney General's office on some point or case.

I advise Deputy Rabbitte, irrespective of whether he believes me, although I hope he does, that what happened in this case was that the protocol that was in place which should have resulted in the information being sent to the Attorney General, did not result in that happening. As to whether Mr. O'Sullivan is assisted by two more civil servants, I remind Members that three serving civil servants drew up the report ten years ago, and it was a serious issue. Members may think it was only one file which brought about a change of Government at that time. It was not a small issue. They drew up the procedures. Mr. O'Sullivan's job is to examine those procedures to check where they are faulty. The Attorney General sees this clearly, and I have outlined to the House those procedures. I believe they will be substantive issues.

Deputy Rabbitte raised the point — I do not want to go into the legal arguments — that the legislation that was passed last week is flawed, faulty and subject to constitutional challenge. All legislation we pass is subject to constitutional challenge. If somebody believes he or she has a case, he or she can deal with it. Criticisms have been made about the Act, which Deputy Rabbitte has repeated, namely, that the provisions of it are unfairly discriminatory. It seems to have been forgotten that the criminal sanctions of the 1935 Act applied only to boys. It did not apply to girls. No one ever challenged the constitutionality of it on that basis. It is clear therefore that the 2006 Act has enlarged protection for children rather than reduced it because it also applies to boys and covers a greater number of sexual acts.

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