Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I will come to Norway shortly. The situation there is not exactly the same.

It is important to find the correct level at which to intervene to avoid killing off the goose that lays the golden egg. No one will be interested in anything we might have to offer unless some incentive exists. This is the way of the world and is how profits are made. Unfortunately, in recent weeks, Members have even seen a bank sell its own premises for money. This is the way we are and it is a manifestation of the "enterprise" State. It is important to find the correct level and to develop the industry to the best of our ability, while ensuring that it is done equitably and with regard for the future.

It is true that Norway has done extremely well. It remained outside the European Union, following a strategic decision made in the knowledge that it had resources which were clearly available to it at the time. Hence, a slight difference exists and it is not exactly comparable to our case. The Norwegians knew 20 years ago that they had resources available and made the strategic decision to remain outside the European Union. From their perspective, that was a good decision. However, somewhat different circumstances apply in Ireland. Our economy and population have grown dramatically in the past ten to 15 years. Prior to that, the population and the economy were going in the opposite direction. We are in a different situation from many Scandinavian countries. Whether we like it or not, their economies have not expanded.

In 1987, the then EFTA countries, which included Norway and Switzerland, had a higher per capita income than any of the European member states, with the exception of Luxembourg. These were outperformed only by the United States, Japan and Western Germany. Explorations indicated that resources were evident in the region at the time and they had the information that stood them in good stead. Our situation is not the same as Norway. We presume we have resources, but we do not yet know the full extent of them. They may be greater or lesser than we think.

However, the crucial factor from the Minister's point of view is to remember the following. Any future arrangements entered into should bear in mind that, in the event of any further agreements with exploration companies, at a certain point, there should be a condition whereby the Government could intervene and say a situation has been reached where the State should be getting more or whatever the case may be. There must be revisionary clauses which, if put in place, would benefit the State and safeguard the country and the Government. This would address the issues raised by the Independent group. There must be an ongoing review of progress which will be to our benefit.

The Minister of State referred to a figure of 163 million litres. I am preoccupied with the reference to litres because I tend to talk in old figures. If one divides the figure by four, one will get gallons, which does not sound as impressive. It would be a great help if Ministers could repeat these measures in old fashioned gallons. In the old days, we were familiar with a gallon of water, a gallon of oil or whatever.

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