Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)

We would have agreement if we threw in the towel and gave everybody what they wanted, which seems to be Deputy Twomey's attitude, that is, every time we go into negotiations, we should agree and then they will be over. At present non-consultant hospital doctors get approximately €200 million per year in overtime for the long hours they work. One cannot reduce working hours and pay people the same amount. I do not believe anybody would find that acceptable.

An analysis was done in nine different sites where there was agreement with the doctors to do some pilot work around the new working time directive, including rostering, etc. Unfortunately, I understand the Irish Medical Organisation has instructed them not to participate in that process, which is regrettable. In the context of that analysis, it is worth noting that 21.9% of the junior doctor's time was spent reviewing a patient already seen by a colleague while almost 10% of his or her time was spent talking to another clinician.

We must move to a situation where we have fewer non-consultant hospital doctors. At present there are approximately 4,000 non-consultant hospital doctors but we want to move that figure down towards 2,000. We need to double the number of consultants because it is only when consultants — the key decision makers — deliver the service as opposed to leading it that we will get the best outcome for patients and greater efficiency and effectiveness.

The talks are before the Labour Relations Commission. I appeal to the doctors involved to agree to the implementation in the nine sites. We are already in breach of the 58-hour provision in the EU working time directive, which should have been introduced on 1 August 2004. Since we are in the process of implementation, apparently we can be facilitated. However, in the interest of the reform of the health care system, we need to reach agreement. There are proposals from the Government side, including the HSE, on rostering and sharing. It is not a question of people working a 39-hour week from 9 a.m. to 5 a.m. and that everything else will be dealt with on an overtime basis. That is not the manner in which we will get the type of health service we need.

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