Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

As for the first question regarding time spans, at the initial plenary meeting of the social partnership discussions in February I proposed that our approach to the negotiations should be based on the shared vision for the country outlined by the National Economic and Social Council. NESC put forward the ten year concept, thus reflecting the need for a medium to longer term policy, planning and reform framework. NESC set out the arguments very well in this regard and I specifically stated we should consider agreeing on a ten year framework for a social partnership process so it can be aligned to and contribute to the development and implementation of the longer term agenda. The continuity and momentum of such a longer term agreement would itself make for a greater degree of confidence in delivery.

Such a longer term approach would be accompanied by specific pay agreements. Hence, such agreements would form part of the overall context, whether they were for 18 months or three years — different aspects would change. However, the overall agenda would be longer, as outlined in detail by the NESC and this is the Government's preference. The social partners would consider some aspects to be part of the ten year strategy while others would have a shorter term life. Obviously, such issues change. In our experience, a matter which was important in one social partnership can become almost irrelevant in another.

However, a rolling medium to longer term perspective would be supported by specific policies over a shorter period that would help competitiveness and skills training. It would provide sustainable employment opportunities, improve workplace conditions and help build an inclusive society. This has been the basis of the discussions and the nature of the approach to such a longer term perspective is being pursued in the context of the ongoing negotiations. Obviously, pay is a shorter term issue.

I note the Deputy's observations regarding the mushroom industry. There have been a number of such incidents and all have been followed up by the inspectorate. In all cases, the inspectorate has done good work. As many employers have begun to come forward with information, people have begun to wake up to the facts in this regard. We must try to induce all employers and subcontractors to follow this agenda, which will take some time. One detailed aspect of the talks pertains to the question as to how this should be resolved in the longer term and how it should be made to work effectively on the ground. This has probably been the key issue at the talks to date.

As for the driver testing issue, while there is broad agreement as to how it should be handled, the individual workers concerned do not yet share that view. We have been engaged with this issue. Much preparatory work has been carried out to find out how the issue can be dealt with and handled efficiently by outside contractors so we can deal with the backlog and the difficulties that have been evident for some time. Officials of the Department of Transport believe this is an excellent way to progress. It is not being done at the expense of the individuals involved because they will continue to have security of employment. However, they are reluctant to make the necessary changes. As we will not be able to resolve the difficulties in the context of the present arrangements, we must find a new way to deal with the issue. The model of this approach has been outlined and it is ready to be put in place if we can reach agreement. Like all of these issues, it cannot be done by rolling over people. We must try to convince people about what we are doing.

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