Willie Penrose (Westmeath, Labour)

The Labour Party is not opposed to the motion before the House that basically authorises the committee to consider amendments that were not covered by the text of the original Bill as published in 2004. We will not therefore be voting against the motion tonight. Neither, however, will we vote in favour of the motion lest it be seen as approval of the extraordinary legislative incompetence of the Minister.

Let us remind ourselves that the amendments as circulated by the Minister, almost two years after the Bill was printed and more than a year after the commencement of the Second Stage debate, run to almost six times the length of the original text of the Bill. If it was a once off, one might be prepared to forgive the Minister but this is but one example of a consistent pattern of legislative incompetence on his part.

Yesterday, before the debate on this motion commenced, the Minister was issued with the parliamentary equivalent of a yellow card by the Ceann Comhairle. This warning was unprecedented in my experience in the House and I hope the Minister will heed it. When the Committee Stage debate proper begins we will have to consider each of the amendments proposed by the Minister and judge them on their own merits. We will also table amendments, as is our right and obligation to ensure that the legislation is scrutinised so that when it goes through this House it is the best legislation to deal with the many problems that are causing great angst and grief in the community and to ensure it is immune from challenge on the grounds of unconstitutionality. I know the Minister is concerned about that also.

The changes to the Bill include significant new elements, anti-social behaviour orders, firearms offences and a firearms amnesty, which I genuinely hope work. I heard Paul Williams speak recently on the radio on this matter and he is not hopeful, but in so far as it is a new attempt to address a problem, it may well advance matters and should be tried. I see nothing wrong in that. The legislation proposes to introduce drug trafficking courts, tagging, electronic identification and amnesties. These are all significant measures. Together with the health services, this is a pressing issue for communities. There is a genuine fear and a real and justified concern about escalating crime levels, especially serious crime. A day does not go by without the national media covering the latest ratcheting up of serious crime which causes great distress and anxiety in communities.

In our rush to introduce legislation that will help to curtail this problem and deal with the serious crimes that are being perpetrated I hope we do not throw out the baby with the bath water. As the Minister is aware, I have some involvement with the criminal justice system. I do not advocate any particular view from that perspective, but 25 years ago Mr. Justice Barra O'Briain recommended that all interviews of suspects in custody should be video-recorded. That is a simple thing and I accept the Minister has made progress, but such a system is still absent in some of the larger Garda stations. The judges' rules and custody regulations exist for good reason. I will not spell this out to the Minister as he knows more about them than I.

I believe it is intended to do away with the system whereby a garda types out statements. One of the things that always worried me is that the statements that emanated from ordinary individuals looked more like the work of Shakespeare than the individuals to whom they were credited. This matter always caused me grave concern. Videotaping is the way to deal with this issue and to safeguard both the garda in the interview room and the rights of the person being interrogated.

Rights exist and we cannot just throw them out altogether. We cannot become a totalitarian state no matter what way we look at it. The Minister should ensure that audio-visual equipment is made available in interview rooms throughout the country. Another benefit of its introduction is that this would save Garda time, to which the Minister referred. This approach would protect everybody, particularly in view of matters which have emerged in evidence before the Morris tribunal. We must be careful in the way this issue is handled. I know the Minister would see this approach as an essential safeguard. That is one way to ensure the matter is properly addressed.

The Minister has indicated that other measures covering the indexation of fines and a DNA database will follow. Restorative justice is a worthy and laudable principle but it appears to get lost in the whole system. At the end of the day, whatever approach we take, the first issue is effective policing. The Garda is stretched to the limits of its capacity and abilities. There is no doubt about that. The Minister has stated that Garda numbers are increasing and I do not wish to get into a row over that, but they must increase given the increase in the population.

In my constituency there are large populated areas such as Kinnegad, Rochfortbridge, Tyrellspass and Kilbeggan on the N6, yet there is not one 24-hour Garda station between Lucan and Mullingar or Lucan and Athlone. The Minister might ask why it is necessary to have one. The N4 and the N6 are two of the principal motorways across the country and many small shops along these routes have been subject to robberies. Such crimes are a significant blow to the proprietors and cause trauma and stress for them. In many cases these crimes go undetected.

Sometimes the Minister participates on the "Today with Pat Kenny" show. If he listened to him today he would have heard a reference to Ballymahon, which is not in my constituency but will be if I am re-elected. It is only down the road from me. An incredible number of robberies have taken place there. A great deal of trauma was evident in the accounts of the local people who were interviewed. A garage owner was driven around in a car for three quarters of an hour. The Garda is doing its best. The garda serving Ballymahon has to come from Athlone and it takes 20 minutes to get there no matter how fast he drives. Garda drivers are very skilled at their job.

It is a question of visibility in terms of policing. When we were growing up the local garda was always visible. It was not a case that one was terrified but we were afraid and if we had it in our heads to do something we quickly disabused ourselves of the notion. Under the old system the gardaí were there to make sure people attended school and so on. They knew everybody on the ground because they lived in the local community and had contact with it. If something strange happened it was relayed to them and they were quickly able to effect arrests or to administer warnings to ensure people did not stray from the right path. It would be unfair not to say that parents also have responsibilities. I am a parent and I cannot expect the State or everyone else to do something for me and I cannot expect them to rear my children. I have to do something myself. As a parent I cannot allow children to walk around the streets at 10 p.m., 11 p.m. or midnight, unrestricted and uncontrolled and not worry about where they are. The first responsibility of parents is to ensure they know where their children are and that some form of time bar is applied. When I was growing up, if you were told to be home at 8 p.m., you returned at that time. This may be old-world but we must participate as parents and as a community in this job.

I am in this House to be constructive rather than critical regarding this legislation. Resources for the Garda Síochána are very important as is garda visibility and community policing. Many elderly people are terrified. My grandmother lived to be 97 years of age. She lived in great peace and happiness because an uncle of mine in his 60s lived with her. Many elderly people live on their own and they become the subject of unwarranted threats and intimidation such as people putting things through their letterboxes. The intimidation of an elderly person is the lowest form of cowardice.

I am not in favour of mandatory sentencing although I am in favour of it in the case of murder. Being a lawyer, the Minister will know it is very easy to blame the judges but no two criminal cases are ever the same. The individual who committed the crime or the circumstances are different in each case. I am not a strong proponent of mandatory sentencing but I will support this measure because it is worthwhile. People are too ready to blame the Judiciary. Judges have a duty under the Constitution to administer the law.

My biggest complaint to the Minister is that he emasculated the missing persons helpline service. I appeal to him to give €100,000 to that service. He has argued that the Garda Síochána can undertake that service but this is not the case. It is a vital service. Deputy Nolan has people in his constituency who are concerned about it as are people in my constituency. Gardaí cannot provide this service; it requires a trained person to give on the spot help. I plead with the Minister to restore that service and a good organisation is prepared to take it on board. A total of 5,000 people are missing. The latest figures available show that in 2004, category A missing persons amounted to 2,600. I appeal to the Minister to reconsider that decision.

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