Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)

I share the concerns expressed by Deputy Costello about this Bill given the 200 amendments to it which run to 300 pages. It is beyond me that such important legislation should have the sheep-like consent of the members of the Government parties. They, particularly those representing the greater Dublin area, must surely be as concerned as the Opposition about this issue. This is not a question of opposition merely for the sake of opposition. This is important legislation not only for the greater Dublin area. One would imagine, as I am sure would the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, that the only part of Ireland where there is crime is the greater Dublin area. It is as if the only thing that happens in Ireland happens in Dublin, if something does not happen in Dublin it does not happen at all and in that case there is no need to address it.

I attended a meeting recently the full proceedings of which focused on what was reported in The Irish Times. I am reluctant to give free publicity to anyone who does not give me free publicity. One of the good aspects of living in Cork is that we are not as fixated with The Irish Times as are people in Dublin. Not alone are they fixated with that newspaper, they are fixated with anything that happens in the region.

I listened to Deputy Haughey's contribution and his basic point was that judges are out of touch with what is happening on the ground. We all know that judges come from a particular elite. They must have knowledge of the law, a certain standard and practice. That is an acknowledged code and we accept that, but a fact we must never accept is that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is out of touch. The reason he is out of touch is that he comes from the same elite. How could he possibly know about crime on the north side of Cork and in other inner cities? The man would not recognise crime in such a place if it jumped up and bit him. He would not have a notion what it feels like to be mugged, to have one's purse snatched or to have to put up with a group of people who are making one's life a misery through engaging in anti-social behaviour every night of the week. Such crime occurs in other parts of the country as well as in Dublin. This legislation is not only about Dublin but also about the rest of the country and we need to ensure that it serves that need.

I will advise Members of the position in Cork North-Central which, as they will have gathered, is the constituency I represent — I would not be talking about it otherwise. After 10 p.m. any night the Garda force operating in Cork North-Central virtually shuts down. That happens not because the gardaí have gone home or because they like to work from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. or from 4 p.m. to 10 p.m. but because they do not have sufficient numbers. There are two Garda stations in Cork North-Central, which anyone who has canvassed there will know is a fairly sprawling constituency. The stations in Watercourse Road and Mallow Road close and the station in MacCurtain Street is closed for good. The members of the force operating in my constituency have only one patrol car. If anyone is of the view that two gardaí in one patrol car can deal with crimes let alone crime prevention, they are fooling themselves. If my son was a garda and he had to go to an estate where he might have to face 20 young fellows, who are not aged 13 or 14 but whose ages range up to 25, one could not expect him or any young garda to leave a patrol car and walk into the middle of such a hostile group to confront them.

There is a lack of gardaí on the beat in communities, who know the area they police and who know the people involved in crime. Gardaí have become almost invisible because there are not sufficient numbers. Yet we have to continue to listen to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform telling us what we should do. He is the great lecturer of all time. There is a major case to be made for not appointing a person who practises a certain profession as Minister with responsibility for that profession. The same applies to the education portfolio, of that I am convinced.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has been arguing both sides of a case for so long that he cannot make a decision. He could defend me tomorrow and prosecute me the next day and he would not have a problem with that because that is what he is trained to do. It is that type of thinking, whereby one does not know which side of the fence one is on, that has led us to the position where the man concerned cannot make a decision. His lack of decision-making has left us in a position where people no longer report crime or feel safe in their homes, and anti-social behaviour is the crime of the day in Ireland and elsewhere.

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