Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)

I intend to share time with Deputy Ring.

I am delighted to have this opportunity. I spoke on Second Stage of the Criminal Justice Bill many months ago and little did I know what the Bill heralded. The Minister said it was a far-reaching, all-embracing Bill badly needed to combat the vicious crimes taking place. On that occasion he convinced us the matters he was taking in hand were extremely important for the country and we believed him. He also said it was a comprehensive Bill and would stand the test of time. I do not know what time it has stood. I have been in this House a good while and I have never seen such a situation in which the amendments are seven or eight times greater in bulk than the Bill. One of two things happened: either the Minister did not know what he was doing when he introduced the Bill, or it is only in more recent months that he caught on to what was happening in the country.

Scenes such as those on the M50 last Saturday night remind one of Tombstone City with Davy Crockett shooting his way out of trouble. As long as that kind of thing happens in a democracy, there is something wrong with the Government, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the way we enforce the law. Regardless of who is involved, criminals or not, unless we cut this racket ordinary, decent people will one day be caught in the crossfire. It is the worst type of rot that has ever come into society. I do not engage in character assassination, however when the irrational Deputy McDowell jumped out of the car on to the sidewalk of a Dublin street he attacked a colleague of mine in a way one would not expect of a Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I sincerely hope other more important matters and crises that will arise every day in his Department do not invoke the same reaction from Deputy McDowell. If they do, God help this country. It was irrational and out of all proportion. I have said this to his face and I am sorry I did not get the opportunity to do so again tonight as he is not here. It is one thing to be dictatorial but another to be irrational. That showed last week for everybody to see.

I have no trouble with most of what has been put before us except that Fine Gael will take many aspects of this seriously on Committee Stage. Given that I have only four or five minutes it is difficult to get involved in something as involved as this raft of 326 amendments. Suffice it to say that one of the things many people want, if it can be done, is mandatory sentencing. I am not a lawyer or a senior counsel but I know right from wrong. People who commit heinous crimes should not be out among the ordinary, working-class people without serving prison time. I hope a minimum mandatory sentence to which the Minister refers, be it five or ten years, will mean what most ordinary people think it means when the judge hands it down. Cases can be made for good conduct and co-operation with the court and the Garda. However, if the crime is as bad as recent vicious murders, all drugs and drink-related, and if this House decides that a minimum mandatory sentence of ten years should be imposed for that crime, I expect that person to serve ten years. People can argue in another forum that there are extenuating circumstances, but for this sort of crime the sentences should be served in full. This did not happen in drugs crimes where what was deemed to be a mandatory sentence was heavily reduced by the courts in certain cases. I hope we are not heading down this line in this instance.

I do not wish to deprive Deputy Ring of time, and I have much to say so I must hurry. I like the amnesty for surrendered weapons. Although nobody in this House knows how well it will work, it obviously makes good sense. Those guns should not be there. The problem is the arms will be forensically tested when they are received. The Minister included this so people who committed terrible crimes could be linked to the crime. People who commit such crimes will not hand in the guns. If "ordinary" criminals hand in their guns, that in itself will be good.

I do not have time to speak about firearms in general. Suffice it to say I hope none of those who have bona fide access to firearms, including sportspersons, will be criminalised. I do not believe that is the Minister's intention in this legislation.

The Minister went out of his way to state the crime rate is falling but I do not know where he got his statistics. A scientific survey carried out in my constituency recently began as a survey of anti-social behaviour in which some 1,400 people in Galway East saw fit to answer 38 questions. It is not often a survey questions so many people in an area, bearing in mind that the MRBI poll surveyed 1,050 people nationwide. The high number of respondents indicates how seriously the issue was taken.

A number of questions were asked and I do not have time to refer to them all. The first question asked whether County Galway needs extra gardaí, in response to which 93% said it did.

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