Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

However, the Deputy's point is that people should have an option not to take an oath even if they have a religious belief that would permit them to so do. It is much of a muchness. Does the Deputy want a person to opt for what, in his or her mind, is a second class declaration and to state that he or she believes in the oath but will only give an affirmation on this occasion? That is the issue. Somebody who does not believe in the oath and has a reasonable ground for not taking it is entitled to affirm. However, if somebody who does believe in it states that he or she will not supply it, then one must ask oneself what is going on here. Such a person believes he or she is entitled to take an oath, believes in the validity and the effect of an oath, and decides subjectively not to give it. The idea of all of this law is that people, in so far as their own beliefs permit, do what is as solemn as they can within their own belief structure to say that they are committing themselves to the truth of what they are saying. Deputy Costello is asking me, in this context, to state that people who believe in the oath should be excused the obligation to take it for no good reason, except that they want to give what in their own view is a second class statement to the same effect. I would prefer to deal with this as a broader issue, in criminal trials, etc. If there is some human rights or dignity issue or it is embarrassing for people to have to identify themselves one way or the other, then so be it. However, that would be an argument for getting rid of the oath for everybody and having an affirmation by everybody which had the same effect, regardless of whether one had a belief of what one was saying in a divine context or otherwise.

I take Deputy Costello's point. I am not oblivious to it. The new Act does not really change the point substantially. I do not want to start a legal revolution here today and state that the oath is becoming optional for people who believe in it.

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