Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)

This is a vexed issue. On Committee Stage we spent some time discussing the appropriateness of the designation of a prison or part thereof as a suitable designated centre. The recommendation in the Henchy report of almost 30 years ago was that special units would be established to provide for persons who needed some care and detention facilities. We do not have even one special unit. The medical profession and the Prison Service loathe the idea that prison would be a centre to detain people in need of treatment. Prison has been used in the past as a dumping ground for people with specific disabilities and problems. The danger is that once it or a part thereof is designated, it will continue to be used as an easy dumping ground for people who are primarily in need of treatment rather than detention.

While the Minister has at least moved to designating a part and not the entirety of a prison, which is some indication that he is moving forward on the matter, there is still a serious problem. I do not know why he needs to designate a part of a prison. The Central Mental Hospital is a designated centre and has secure facilities. Any replacement for the Central Mental Hospital will also have secure facilities. If we simply say "prison", we are bringing ourselves into a situation where the primary factor is secure detention rather than treatment. That will always create a major problem in terms of what we are trying to do in this Bill.

I hope the Minister is not doing what I fear he is, namely, looking at the proposal for Thornton Hall in north county Dublin. The Minister's colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Tim O'Malley, has reserved his decision on whether he wants part of the site for the Central Mental Hospital. If the intention is to locate the Central Mental Hospital in Thornton Hall as part of the prison complex — to designate part of a prison, in other words — there is a danger that people could be interchanged between the Central Mental Hospital and the prison in Thornton Hall and we could end up with the worst of both worlds where there would be tremendous confusion between the categories of treatment and detention.

Can facilities required for a violent offender, psychopath, sociopath or a person with a persistent personality disorder or whatever not be provided within the designated centre, namely, the Central Mental Hospital? Are we talking about large numbers of people? We need some statistics on this matter. If we are talking about a very small number, do we need to go that step too far in designating a prison or part of a prison? Inevitably there will not be the same level of treatment because that is not the function of a prison or a part of a prison. One could not have such people in a part of the prison no more than in the prison itself because one could not afford it.

We have only to look at what is proposed for the National Children's Hospital. The best way to get the maximum facilities is to have a single world class facility where all the services, surgical practices and treatments take place together. If part of a prison is supposed to be a psychiatric institution or a place for the accommodation of those with mental illness, dementia or disabilities of that nature, the position will be compounded.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh is correct. If it is the case that 30 years ago we sought to have a special unit established as a designated centre and now, with all the money available and all the modern thinking, we must still resort to designating a prison, it would appear we are regressing rather than progressing. We need some light at the end of the tunnel on this matter. It would be somewhat irresponsible of this House to pass legislation on the assumption that patients, the people we are talking about, would be sent to a detention or custodial centre and that we would simply add the imprimatur of designated centre as though that was appropriate. Will the Minister rethink that aspect? I realise we are on Report Stage but is there any need for this provision given the purpose of section 2(1) is to designate the Central Mental Hospital a designated centre? Also, the Minister for Health and Children, in consultation with the Mental Health Commission and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, will designate a psychiatric centre. Could we not just leave it at that? Is it necessary to include amendment No. 15 in subsection (2)(b)? Could we simply accept the first part of the Minister's amendment and leave out the second part? Would we not have adequate facilities, certainly in the short term, to deal with it through the Central Mental Hospital and, in the long term, to come up with the actual recommendation, which was a special unit? That would allow us examine the possibility of a special unit and perhaps amend this legislation in the future when a unit would be in place.

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