John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)

Deputy Finian McGrath is not alone in his concern that we should have the highest standards on the part of both politicians and officials in respect of the administration of local authorities and Government. I have been pleased by the volume of legislation which has been introduced since 1997, which will keep all Members on the straight and narrow. It ensures the transparency of the reporting mechanisms operated by individual public representatives and offers accountability to the highest level. Despite the numbers of cases which have been reported recently in the public media concerning officials and politicians, it cannot be forgotten that the great bulk of politicians and officials serving at national or local level perform their duties beyond reproach. This point must be stated as frequently as possible because since my election in 1997, I have heard numerous debates in this House which centred on the corruption of a small number of officials and politicians who took money for one reason or another. Most Members enter public life to do their best. While Deputy McGrath is correct up to a point, the other side of the argument must also be pointed out and taken into consideration.

I welcome the Bill introduced by the Minister, Deputy Roche. For me, the most important part of it is perhaps that which refers to the control of those qualified as architects, building surveyors and quantity surveyors and ensures that all involved in those professions are suitably qualified for the work they are undertaking, that there is a register kept of those qualified to which people can refer and that all those involved in those professions are expected to keep up certain standards in their work with either developers or individual members of the public. Most of the issues of which we speak in the context of this debate start with and can be controlled by that block of people who engage with individuals and developers and who provide the professional advice to make a planning application in the first place.

I have seen far too often where developers purchase a large tract of land for an enormous price and thereafter must ensure that the highest number of units are put on that site in order that they might get a profit from it. Deputy McGrath also referred to this. That is what the profit line is driven by. I understand that the developers must make money, but the need to make back the type of foolish money invested in sites is causing a problem within the planning section because after the purchase they press for permission for the greatest number of housing units, apartments or commercial units. That practice must stop. Developers must adopt a commonsense approach to the purchase price of land and to the planning permission available subsequently.

In my city of Kilkenny I have seen in-fill sites, for example, being purchased at outrageous prices. For that price the developer then must get four houses instead of two. If it is properly stated within the county development plan and if the architects and the surveyors appointed by the developer properly state prior to purchase what can be achieved on a site, then there will not be the rush to the maximum limit and beyond which is seen currently within the planning process. Part of controlling that, without being mentioned in this Bill, is set down in the context of how we treat the architects, surveyors and quantity surveyors. It is good that we are doing that in the context of legislation.

Alongside and parallel to that there should be a system whereby within the Department every planner is not only informed of this legislation but extends it to the point I mentioned earlier, that prior to a purchase where a pre-planning query is made, the person or company making the inquiry is brought in to hear the various restrictions on the site explained, not only in the context of legislation and the county development plan but also in the context of general sensible development that can take place on that site. All that planning has an impact on what is achieved on the site and the consumer. I am glad that this legislation has a serious focus on the consumer in question and makes a serious effort to protect the rights of future consumers in the context of any development taking place.

I would suggest that a proactive role needs to be taken in this by county managers and the engineers employed in local authorities. That can be achieved by consultation with the Departments to ensure that a common line is followed in every county. One of the other issues is that there is no consistency between counties, that is, greater density is achieved on specific sites in different counties and that leads to confusion. Setting it out in the context of this Bill is therefore a good idea.

The Bill's other focus is on the disability groups. Given that approximately 80,000 units are being built a year, it is very important as the economy develops and improves with greater turnover and people having greater aspirations and expectations that we focus on the area of disability and ensure in the context of good planning that every aspect of the Bill is adhered to. This leads back to the architects and surveyors. Too often over recent years I have seen lip-service paid to the legislation and the planning regulations on access for those with a disability to public buildings or general housing. The Bill sets down a certification process for those who make planning applications. I want to see that certification process streamlined, efficient and achieving what is set out in the Bill on behalf of the consumer.

As we move along in this process of developing the country and providing all these housing units, commercial operations and civic buildings such as administrative centres in the various growing centres of population, this certification process must ensure that there is not only public access for those with a disability to toilet facilities, etc. but that we really extend the process to make working buildings for everyone. The critical judgment call I would make on any building is whether there is access for everyone. There is such access in some of our civic buildings. There are lifts and ramps and people can access every part of the building to do their business. In older buildings, however, there is not such access. In a city such as Kilkenny where there are many old buildings which cannot be tampered with due to their heritage value, there are also those used as civic buildings such as City Hall which a person with a disability cannot enter because it contains stairs from top to bottom and there is no lift.

As this Bill is being introduced by the Department with responsibility for heritage and local government, there is a need to ensure that we lead by example and that a much greater effort is made to ensure that those with a disability can access those older buildings. That means spending a considerable amount of money on slowly but surely going through that list of buildings and ensuring accessibility for all. Perhaps the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, apart from this Bill but in the context of the work of the Department, would encourage county managers to get to grips with the problems in such old buildings. For instance, in Kilkenny Borough Council one of the members of the council cannot access the building and sometimes the meeting must be held elsewhere. That is unforgivable, given that the issue of access has been debated over the years. It always comes down to funding and in the context of this Bill, we must lead and show good example. Showing good example will cost money but it will pay off in the end.

Similarly, where the owner of a commercial building, regardless of whether it is leased to a company, shows an intent to make it accessible, there should be grants available. We cannot simply set down legislation and correct it as we go along. We must revise what is in place. It would be no harm if the State were to provide a financial incentive to people who own such buildings to do the job of providing lifts, ramps, wider doorways etc. That needs to be done sooner rather than later. It will pay off in the context of accessibility to services and employment. People with disabilities who could not take up certain jobs previously because of the lack of access to buildings will be able to do so following the enactment of the legislation.

The granting of planning permission has become a major issue in the enforcement of building control. My experience with Kilkenny County Council has been positive because it has an enforcement section. One can have a complaint processed to ensure a building is constructed in accordance with the planning permission. These sections are hugely important in the context of this legislation. The Minister of State said he intends to speak to county managers to ensure their building enforcement sections are alive and well and take a proactive approach in ensuring planning conditions and provisions in this legislation are met so that buildings are in compliance with planning permission.

That will create a need for additional local authority staff if the Minister is serious about implementing the legislation. Will the Minister of State examine the issue of joined up Government and relate it to joined up agencies? Health and Safety Authority staff undertake site inspections while staff in the Department of Social and Family Affairs and Revenue also inspect building sites for other reasons. Their efforts should be combined to police the building regulation process. I encourage the Minister of State to examine the possibility of using this multi-skilled cohort of staff to undertake this work, which would eliminate the need to recruit additional employees to enforcement sections that need to investigate building sites. The behaviour of a number of developers and builders towards employees by neglecting or ignoring their rights has been at the centre of public discourse in recent weeks. A multi-agency approach to resolving this problem should be considered.

I refer to fire certification. The fire service needs additional staff to cope with the number of buildings that need to be certified, given the increased development taking place in every county. When fire certificates are approved, sufficient staff should be available to ensure there is no delay in issuing them. Under the legislation, a developer will have to secure a certificate that reflects the provision of access for people with disabilities and a fire certificate to comply with planning permission. This will increase the public scrutiny of planning applications and provide opportunities for appeals and so on. The process should be transparent and open to the public while achieving efficiency in the granting of certificates and complying with planning permission within the specified period. Deadlines need to be specified for both making applications for certificates and the approval of such certificates.

A major onus will be placed on the fire service. Its core task is to deal with fires, accidents and so on in the community. There are major gaps in the fire service infrastructure and investment is needed in staff, vehicles and buildings. Fire stations also have access difficulties. As communities develop and new standards and regulations are enforced, the Department must lead by example and ensure the fire service can adequately deal with the safety issues for which it is responsible. The service should have the infrastructure and resources it needs, including funding, to ensure it can do its job. I commend the men and women of the fire service, who work more than the normal number of hours to ensure a fast and efficient service is delivered to the local communities. However, they work against a backdrop of the construction of 80,000 additional housing units, the extension and relocation of many commercial buildings and the expansion of centres of population. Commercial premises are relocating to county towns and so on where they would not have set up in the past and the fire service is trying to catching up with this development. The fire service is offering new services in towns such as Freshford and Castlecomer in my county but there are gaps in other urban centres such as Graiguenamanagh, Thomastown and so on.

We must focus on what is expected from the service. The Bill will be implemented by local government, which we are told is seriously under pressure, and the fire service, which is also under pressure. The Minister of State must acknowledge this and make the appropriate changes, where necessary, and the Government should be prepared to increase investment in the system. I am pleased energy efficiency in new homes is covered in the legislation. Developers and others will be encouraged to look beyond oil fired central heating and consider other heating concepts so that people will not be affected by the price of oil. Developers should be encouraged to take on new concepts when building new homes and commercial premises larger than 10,800 sq. ft. That is a positive development. Our approach should be environmentally friendly. I look forward to the debate on the finer points of the Bill on later Stages.

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