Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)

All Members have their own perspective on this important debate. Last Monday morning, I was called to a local national school where an irate headmaster and teacher were trying to get a student assessed by the HSE. The teachers believed the student had serious behavioural problems and that the HSE and the psychology services ought to be involved, but they had refused to become involved. I made some representation on their behalf and I hope that it has changed a bit.

We must look at what is happening in our primary and secondary schools to make sure that those who try to get into third level have the best chance to get there. Those who may not have the resources required in existing primary and secondary schools ought to have them. We should prioritise investment so that we first look after those whose education is compulsory. Subsequently, we should look after those who are on a different level. I do not mean to say that third level education should not be funded properly. However, there are inequalities in the present system that need to be addressed to allow people to get a better chance to get in the door of our third level institutions.

Are our secondary schools failing our students? Is there an increasing number of students going from the traditional second level school to the grind school? Is there an increasing number of schools being set up that charge fees to provide more advanced teaching and technology to get people into the career of their choice? There has certainly been an increase in the number of students going to these institutions. Teachers and administrators in mainstream education ought to look at how they present their courses, how they run their disciplinary systems and their in-house ethos. If a student feels he must go to a private school to get the points required to get into medicine or whatever, that means the local second level school is failing him. We need to look at the connections between the Department, second level education and the points system. The points system alone is a shameful way to get into a career of choice. Thousands of students are lucky to get 300 to 400 points. However, one needs almost 600 points and must be as smart as Einstein to get into medical school nowadays. Students unable to get into the course of their choice feel the system has failed them. It is not that the academic standards of the courses involved are so high, but rather that there are not enough places. We need to address this in a far more radical manner. Third level institutions ought to introduce other ways to measure the ability of second level students before they come through their hallowed doors.

We should take the total development of the second level student into account. Students who have achieved success in sports, drama and other activities that cannot be measured by an exam paper, should have those achievements included in assessments to get into third level institutions. Many people enter a career based on the points achieved and not because they really want to enter that career. They have done very well in their exams, but they may not be suited to the career chosen. Another student who might have always wanted to study for that career cannot get in for a lack of five points. Such a student will attend a grind school and get the points the second time. There are inequalities in our education system and between schools, such as the local VEC school and the fee-paying secondary school. The State should provide extra resources to the VEC school. There should be a level playing field for everyone. If people are lucky enough to have wealthy parents, then fair dues to them. However, we should not develop a politics and education of envy, but an education of esteem whereby all our children are seen as equals. We should strive to have the excellent facilities of our private schools in all of our secondary schools. We should do much more for students who come from poorer backgrounds so that they too can attend an educational centre of excellence.

Deputy Coveney made some excellent points on the international status of our third level institutions. We seem to fail at third level in an international context. However, we are now getting a much more dynamic interaction between the major multinational companies in our university cities. Many of them have funded third level courses geared to creating a greater centre of excellence for future employees of their own companies. We need a proactive policy and enlightened companies are making much progress in this respect. We should explore further tax breaks and incentives for them so that they will invest in our third level institutions. We do not tax the horse racing industry and that creates many jobs. If we could create similar incentives for companies to invest in our third level institutions, that would make a big difference.

Ireland has changed a great deal since the 1960s. There were only four scholarships available in County Louth in 1965, which meant that only four students could go for free to university. That situation was the same right around the country. The intervention of Donogh O'Malley in that debate to make university courses more available represented a major initiative that has worked right through the system. People who came from poorer parts of towns and cities and who worked hard in their factory jobs can now look with pride on their sons and their daughters who are really succeeding in our society. However, we still need to address inequalities and we need to put more resources into students who are being failed by the system.

Some students are so disruptive that they are about to be excluded at seven years of age from our primary school system and the resources are not there to help them. There have been phenomenal changes at second level and we need to put more investment into schools where children are at a greater economic disadvantage. I am confident the future of our young people is in good hands and our universities are very fine places of education.

We should look again at the points system so that more people will get into courses for which they are eminently suitable. Without an interview and without taking into account the total development of a student, the points system alone is not fair. We must address that serious problem.

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